(MOAR) Mad Ideas!

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(MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

BY SAUDI SHROOMANIAN DECREE!

I'm locking the old Mad Ideas thread since it is too HUEG and I am thus postings Vic's most astute summary in this new threads.
Invictus wrote:Fear what I start doing out of sudden urges.

I read through all 50 pages of this thread and summarized all the bits of world-setting that got discussed by us. I didn't include stuff like story ideas or details in character histories, since that stuff is less far-reaching. But I get the feeling that half the canon of Comix! seems to exist in this thread and nowhere else. Hence the executive summary:

- Kamin’s suggestion of a “Hell invades America” plot was quickly rejected (By Shroom, who by the way wrote the very same thing into his history of the SDI). However, this led to a discussion on the nature of religion and gods in Comixverse. The general consensus was to keep no defining pantheons or cosmic principles in place, just because everyone has written down too many mutually contradictory deities already. Retconning real-world religion into the mess creates an even bigger one, especially concerning the metaphysical monopoly of the Judeo-Christian god.

Shroom: That SDI thing was positively ancient and I changed my mind about it. Sort of.

- Cydonia Academy’s field trip to the Hero Labs Experimental Science Center. Remember, Ford.

- Ford’s idea of Tony Saint’s previous excursions into other universes ruled by alternate versions of himself, killing them and taking their stuff. This led to the introduction of a number of technologies into mainstream Comixverse, such as artificial muscle suits and homing lasers. There were no objections to this.

- Malchus’s idea of parabolic memory wipers and armed golf carts for the Blacksuits, which have already appeared in other threads so I won’t elaborate. There is also, however, using the Black U-2 as a transdimensional spy plane. The up-armed Black Patton idea got shot down though.

- The Seven Serpents of Crime are go already.

- Orson Nate and Fidel Castro unite against Aztec death-cults, as proposed by Shroom. More of a story idea, but it confirms the presence of overt Aztec death-cults running around in South America, presumably with period getup.

- Everyone agreed that it is more reasonable if Archwind is married and has a family. Peck’s wife may be called Cass and works currently for the SuperDep, and is an ordinary human. When they met, she was either a Crowtalon attorney or a UN diplomat – something that influenced Archwind the farmboy’s own political stance.

- The Maverick Three are go.

- Siege’s the Clockwork Wars between France and Britain in the early 19th Century, involving steampunk hacking. Siege, however, later withdrew that one for more consideration.

- The Holy Inquisition being an active anti-supernatural organization in the modern day, also suggested by Siege. He objected to them being a bunch of ineffectual sadists and casts them as the world’s oldest intelligence agency instead, which IMO is a nifty angle.

- A city of nymphs in the Mediterranean Sea, again from Siege. Objections were raised over such an overt supernatural presence.

- Ford’s general reminder that vampires and werewolves in Comixverse are not entirely hidden and not generally evil for evil’s sake either.

- Shroom’s idea of people who are psychic “blanks” got shot down, because technology makes them redundant. This confirms that anti-psychic technology is relatively easy, too.

- Comrade Felix using his abilities in Russian nuclear disarmament: i.e. absorbing all their energy and doing something more useful with it. Still in the air.

- THE ORIGINS OF RONALD VON REAGAN (I had to quote all this because it was so awesome):

“In the 16th, 17th, 18th or whateverth centuries - House von Reagan falls out of favor of the Kaiser or of the other noble houses due to some court intrigue and shit. Sort of like House Hasburg (sp?) in good Old Familiars. Except, perhaps, maybe Ronald von Reagan's venerable ancestors were up to von Reagan-brand dickery back in the Fatherland, pissing off all the Counts and Barons and the Kaiser himself. As in, royally pissing them off.

So when we say "proud Germanic Heritage of the American West Coast", it's actually more like everyone who hated House von Reagan, which is everyone, told the whole clan to GTFO and so the von Reagans snubbed their noses, adjusted their monocles, and transfered their entire castle brick for brick to a plot of land in the New World that would one day become Californication.

Along the way, I guess at some point they ended up becoming something of a Colonial Company - like the East Indies or some shit. Except since the Other Houses don't like them, the von Reagans didn't get to become THAT big. They were still majorly influential, though.

Aaaaanyway, a few more centuries of bad blood later, when the Imperial Germans start calling their American cousins and asking them help for World War 1 - the von Reagans would promptly tell them to shove a pickelhaube up their arshlochs.

Austerlitz would HAET the von Reagans. So much.”

“Refinement therefore of the concept proposed by Shroom: I would propose that House Von Reagan controlled a piddling city-state in Bavaria, did what it did best (the Runaway Defence Budgets of the 18th century!), resulting in some truly oversized cannonry and a military might completely disproportionate to the size of their territory. After some antics that would have made Von Munchausen proud they draw the ire of the Archdukes of Austria, who conspire to have them Driven From The Land. In 1750 the Von Reagans end up with a ridiculous assignment to colonize California in the name of the Holy Roman Emperor Francis I, although it was a public secret that it was actually an exile orchestrated by his wife Maria Theresa, the Archduchess of Austria and Queen of Bohemia and Hungary (because she was furious that then-Baron Manfred von Reagan spurred her avances and declined to be her male courtesan!) who had an ally in the nefarious Baron Rudolph von Austerlitz (who wished to usurp the lands of the Von Reagans!)

And so House Von Reagan ends up in hostile California far from their beloved Black Forest, but like the Atreides ended up on Dune and made the best of it, Manfred von Reagan rebuilds his proud castle on the Hollywood Hills and fights off Indians, Spanish/Mexicans, Texans and dirty Confederates to establish the noble Barony Von Reagan in Exile! Which later joins the USA in a similar vein to the Indian reservations (EG it's defacto a state within a state - considering Skyhaven and the undoubtedly bizarre history of the West Coast I think this wouldn't be too much of a stretch). Because they had so little help from Germany to thank for their troubles they wouldn't exactly feel like helping the Imperial Germans out in return - particularly since their perpetual nemesis House Von Austerlitz was firmly in the Imperial camp. And so, WW1 sees an American Von Reagan duking it out with a Von Austerlitz whilst trading insults such as "Traitor!" and "Usurper!"

Returning as a war hero, the star of the Von Reagan dynasty will then rise over the course of the 20th century, culminating in the presidency of Baron Ronald "perhaps it's not called an Empire but I still rule the world! Muahaha!" Von Reagan!”

“While the concept of a German California is still awesome, there's something here that can be potentially bad. It's never stated when Von Reagan's California becomes a commonwealth (in U.S. political jargon, a commonwealth is essentially a self-governing protectorate/territory) under U.S. control, which can have serious implications regarding the Compromise of 1850 and the Civil War.

Since California never applied for statehood in Comix!, the permanent imbalance in the Senate in the favor of abolitionists would never happen, which means that the Compromise, which postponed the Civil War for a decade after tensions regarding the free/slave state status of the newly acquired territories from Mexico threatened to make war break out, would become massively imbalanced in favor of the slave states. While this might not seem like a big deal, it should be noted that the North underwent a massive surge in industrialization during those ten years, which allowed them to pursue their strategy of attrition that ultimately won the war. By removing those ten years, the nature of the Civil War could potentially change for the worse (or not; the North could still be able to pull off victory, but at a larger cost).

Granted, for most people who are indifferent regarding history (I'm obviously not one of them) this isn't really a big deal and could be whisked away via a deus ex machina of sorts (e.g., the New Mexico territory could take California's place). Alternatively, Von Reagan's California could aid the U.S. in the Mexican-American War, or vice versa, and would shortly thereafter become a commonwealth of the U.S. for protection and be given a voting senator to signify that it isn't just another territory, thus making this little hiccup in history moot.”


- The Reign of von Reagan was marked by runaway defense budgets, a national mood bordering on crypto-fascism, environmental blight and urban decay. (Note: The Culture Wars would have been so. Much. Worse.) His legacy includes of course Castle von Reagan, brooding upon a hill overlooking Hollywood, transported brick by brick from the Barony of von Reagan in Bavaria.

- Wild Manchuria has already been established, a postwar wasteland roamed by ChiCom lawgivers with red star badges, Mongolian bikers, criminals bootlegging soft drinks, Japanese remnants, Technotheocratic cyberwright-preachers, North Korean spies and xenophobic inhuman tribes.

There are also Russian Cossack Cowboys, don't forget the frickin' cowboys!

- A brotherhood of Iron Chefs in a moon base, as suggested by Mobius.

- The increased use of airships throughout history, suggested by various people. Some may be pure dirigibles, others also use anti-gravity Cavorite. Siege wants them in direct combat roles up until WWII but Shroom is skeptic.

- The issue of your average passenger plane in Comixverse came up again, as an argument between the implications of advanced technology and keeping the universe relatively recognizable. Suborbital supersonic liners do exist, although not everywhere.

- Stuff regarding Dimitri Dzhugashvili Deschain and the Gulag of A Thousand Stalins. Largely integrated into Erika Deschain’s profile, I guesse.

- Heretic’s “The Onion”, a government agency that went around ‘regulating’ alien immigration on Earth, which other seemed fine with if they were instead a private organization funded by individuals with a grudge. Heretic did not pursue it further, though.

- Malchus’ idea of a series of short stories about the daily life of Average Joes and not so average Joes on Comix! Earth.

- Ford established that yes, there are fusion reactors that fit inside cars and fighter planes.

- Some discussion on the visibility of the Technotheocracy, which established that their all-out offensive in Things Might Get Trippy was a tad too much. They are definitely more influential in Russia and Eastern Europe, and Siege suggests that their organization be a lot more esoteric so not even the majority of their members know about the weirder stuff. There were also some arguments about its overlap with the Eastern Orthodox Church and its Cold War battle of influence with the USSR, which led into a discussion about turning it into a serious religion.

- “How's this for a start: like the orthodox church, the TTC is split into multiple more-or-less autonomous patriarchates, those being:

1. The Ecumenical Atomic Pontificate of Moscow
2. The Electrified Patriarchate of Kragoreshtan
3. The Autocephalous Electronic Archdiocese of the Far East

Since the Great Schism the Ecumenical Pontificate is the primes inter pares of the TTC, but although they are supposed to work together they sometimes also come into conflict with one another (yay intrigue and quibbling over doctrine!)”

- 38 pages later, we go back to discussing the nature of Hell in Comix. Still no consensus, though.

- The Gargoyle Initiative as an English occult watchdog organization founded in Tudor times, suggested by Speaker.

- The existence of Gatling Carriages and Mechanical Spiders in the ACW as a sign of accelerated technological development, but not much else was said.

- The Peacekeeper nuclear deterrent bomber takes shape. Another demented product of the von Reagan administration, they are presumably still patrolling American airspace today, updated with fusion engines and modern avionics. There was talk of them having rudimentary sentience.

- SOCRATES the Blacksuit AI. Already implemented.

- Shroom’s ruminations on stealth and Compressed Space technology. Black helicopters actually use cloak by ducking into another dimension, and so do Raptor Xs. This has its own side effects including the volatility of the c-space pockets when the craft itself is destroyed, but Malchus seems enthusiastic.

- Siege on the way the Martian Invasion altered 19th century European history, along with all the other events. Something which will be worked out eventually.

And I think we’re current enough that the rest doesn’t need summarizing.
The latest discussion involves:

- Stalin and Lenin being awesome Socialist Soviet Sorcerer Supremes and Hitler being Stalin's arch foe, an evil arch-warlock who got blown to smithereens courtesy of the Man of Steel (Stalin) in the Battle of Berlin and whose scattered organs are now unholy artifacts prized by questing Nazi occultists. Moby is flabbergasted, Militum is curious, Siege and I are the madmen who proposed all this.

- Ronald von Reagan's rampant deregulation causing the ecologic demise of Los Angeles into something resembling Blade Runner LA, with the smoke stacks and the oil drilling. Maybe it ends up in the US West Coast's own version of the Kuwaiti oil field fires.

- The Independence Day ripoff aliens mentioned in the SDI article becoming awesome. They now have an interesting backstory involving planetary decimation at the hands of Mogar and mass exodus, before they find a new home - Earth. They send an envoy to the supposed "worldking" of Earth, Ronald von Reagan, who told them to go fuck themselves. Pissed off, the aliens prepare to invade Earth and do so.

The aliens, due to the wear-and-tear of entire generations of nomadic flight, can no longer perform orbital bombardments and Base Delta Zeroes. Also, due to being civilized folk, they cannot bring themselves to do indiscriminate slaughter. Nonetheless they retain technological advantage. So they send their thousands of destroyers into Earth's atmosphere over a course of a week, engaging only military targets while hovering ominously above Earth's cities to dissuade human nuclear retaliation. This causes a pitched battle for the very fate of the planet, both in the land, air, sea and space, as the combined militaries and superheroes do battle against the aliens. The aliens cannot be stopped, but humanity will never give up and never surrender!

Eventually the alien worldship arrives to orbit over the Earth to give humanity a final ultimatum, hovering above us like a second (angrier) moon. But it is humanity who gives the aliens the ultimatuming and the what-for, as the world's mightiest heroes led by Archwind and co. go up into the worldship and show the aliens what's what. The aliens retreat begrudgingly, gather their thousands upon thousands of dead soldiers and the wreckage of their wrecked city-sized destroyers, and seek another fate.

This may or may not be Doctor Difference's debut, as his energy-destroying powers may defeat the alien's technology through their inherent fuel shortages.

- Another one of mein ideas about cyberpunk and the Corporations in the 80s, with lots of basis on 80s sci-fi and pop culture and silly fashion.

- Vic's Giant von Reagan Tank!
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Malchus »

Mang, that is quite the summary! :shock: Props to Vic for actually rifling through pretty much all of COMIX just to list all those down. I have a little to add 'cept the following:
- The existence of Gatling Carriages and Mechanical Spiders in the ACW as a sign of accelerated technological development, but not much else was said.
Arty did mention Cherub flying suits for the Union designed by the Skyhaven founder, essentially starting the US Army Air Corps in the 19th Century. It was on his old Nation of Skyhave article in Old OZ. I also posited that guns in the American Civil War-era would also be about twenty years advanced, meaning that the standard infantry weapons aren't rifle-muskets but single-shot breech-loading rifles and lever-action repeaters.

Oh, and we never did get to an agreement on the whole thing with how Prof. Cavor's Moon shot ended. And, other than Shroom and Magister, I don't know if anyone else agreed to my suggestion of the Apollo missions (possibly involving all of NATO rather than just the US) being about putting bases on the moon rather than being the first to put men on the moon and having a Soviet counterpart mission landing just minutes after Armstrong's base-building team. Also included was my suggestion for the Cold War Space Race to be more militaristic which meant that there was no treaty preventing the militarization of space, which ultimately lead up to the more powerful nations making space navies, which then led to the unification of said space forces into the UN Space after the 1996 invasion (the last part I suggested after Shroom's invasion suggestions).
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

I don't know about the Apollo mission being about landing men on the moon, but I'm all for the Soviets following it mere minutes later with something purely AWESOME and huge. I was just thinking of Neil Armstrong and Co, not doing any base building but just the first-stepping, and in mere minutes getting overshadowed by a super special Socialist Soviet space station ship. :mrgreen:

Leik what Stas says...


Anyway, even IF the nations of the world had tiny space navies by that point, I wonder how it would've stood up against the aliens. I'm still at a loss for how and why the flag Cosmic Battleships of the Great Powers, from the Arkangel to the Thunderchild to the Valley Forge could've survived the onslaught.

The Les Miserable could've survived by hiding behind the moon, since the French are total assholes and they would've so let everyone else fry while staying safe behind the darkside of the moon...

Maybe whatever militarization the world's great powers had in space was downed in the first few days of brutal fighting between Earth and the invaders, leaving behind only the few Cosmic Battleships. After the war ended, the rebuilt navies would be joined in the combined UN Spacy. Except the flag Cosmic Battleships, whose awesomeness would be reserved exclusively for the great nations.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Magister Militum »

Well, in real life there existed serious proposals from those who worked on Project Orion to use the Orion spacecraft in order to set up a large, permanent base on the Moon, as well as using the proposed Super Orion as an interstellar ark (which could have been built using the technology of the day). Hell, I even remember a rumor about someone proposing to Kennedy the concept of developing Orion-propelled space battleships (I don't know whether that rumor is true, though). Considering the technological acceleration that is present in Comix!, as well as the more intense nature of the Cold War, I see no reason for the superpowers not to have invested more in the space race.

Of course, the reprocussions from this would be that the Cold War would go interplanetary, to an extent. In actuality, this all reminds me of the game Battlezone, which had a very similar concept.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Ford Prefect »

It seems likely that space combat during the invasion would be limited. I honestly don't think they would have thousands of combat spacecraft, and if they can't perform orbital bombardments, they certainly couldn't engage in ship to ship combat. I mean, being the 'lost and bedragled remnants of a civillisation ravaged and destroyed by the Magnificence of Mogar' does not exactly jive with 'thousands of combat craft and one worldship the size of a small moon'. We're tlaking about an alien version of the ragtag fleet from Battlestar Galactica, after all.

As I see it, the invasion is basically the end result of break downs in negotiations resulting. Von Reagan isn't the be-all and end all of world-leaders, and there's actually no reason for the aliens to go to him exclusively. For example, they wouldn't even know who Von Reagan is - you can't exactly just pick up television from out in space. It seems likely that the first people they get into contact with would be any Comix! SETI equivalent, which would then filter up to governments and so on. There would likely to be diplomacy between the aliens and any number of sovereign powers*. But given our rather touchy history with other aliens, like the Martians, Mogar and even Damask, it seems plausible that things wouldn't go smoothly on both ends. Communications break down, anti-alien sentiment goes up and so on and so forth. War is just an extention of politics, even if the aliens aren't exactly really geared up for a war with their rag tag fleet, they've got to at least try.

They wouldn't be able to absorb much in the way of material casulties. A minority of their fleet would be precious battleships, relicso f a once proud fleet. Even if they're decrepit, undercrewed and well out of their prime, they're the only defense that the habitat ships and space-arks have. They can barely afford to loose one or two. It's a huge gamble - if they pull it off, then they can likely settle, if they fail, they'll be dealt and incredibly serious blow that will likely doom the remnants of their species. This should be the desperate, last chance push of a dead civillisations trying to cling desperately onto life. When they loose the war, it should be implied that it is only a matter of time before their fleet is picked apart by raiders. That sort of thing should be a formative learning experience for the peoples of earth, about how not to deal with aliens. In a sense, it should be clear that while we did not provoke the invasion, there would be good reasons why it occured. The aliens might not even invade earth as a whole: they might only actually attack nations they're having a beef with. Even with the more powerful UN, OZ Comix! Earth is not a unified political entity.

*I would like to see some British diplomat ask for Lord Fahrenheit's support in negotiations on the basis that 'he is an alien too', only to be reminded that 'alien' just means 'not from earth' and that as a Martian he is as unlike this species as we are from them, with no knowledge of their culture or customs.

EDIT: Also I haven't forgotten about the 'Justin at ESC' story either, Vic. ;)
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Mobius 1 »

It seems to me that, if the war was the result of a breakdown of negotiations, that, by our eventual victory, we could have negotiated a peace treaty with the aliens. The war doesn't have to end with us ruining their shit hard to the point of their species eventually going the way of the dodo. As the metaphor about wolves backed into the corner go, it'd actually be interesting to see the diplomats (on both sides, even) rushing as war breaks out to bring stuff back into control before someone pops a really huge weapon (the aliens, being the aftermentioned corner wolves, might be willing to pull some pretty dangerous shit to get what they want against who they want. Of course, with the 'zillion nukes being popped off', it's certainly not good for humanity either). In the end, we really could pull off a cease-fire where we negotiate with the aliens where they can peacefully coexist with humanity on Earth (and the moon).

All I'm saying is that we need to keep in mind that it doesn't have to end with total victory, but have a moderately happy ending for both sides.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Or a very unhappy ending for the aliens. They'll have to find another world.
Ford wrote:I honestly don't think they would have thousands of combat spacecraft, and if they can't perform orbital bombardments, they certainly couldn't engage in ship to ship combat. I mean, being the 'lost and bedragled remnants of a civillisation ravaged and destroyed by the Magnificence of Mogar' does not exactly jive with 'thousands of combat craft and one worldship the size of a small moon'. We're tlaking about an alien version of the ragtag fleet from Battlestar Galactica, after all.
An alien version of the ragtag fleet from Battlestar Galactica might be bigger. Before Mogar tried to kill them, they might have had twelve star systems instead of twelve colony-planets, that might've made their ragtag fleet more massive if it was composed of the survivors of the last star system.

They were once a proud star nation. Maybe the scale of their ragtag fleet could be different, more like a supersized Battlestar Galactica ragtag fleet than just a regular-sized Battlestar Galactica ragtag fleet. Their ragtag fleet could have a "small" portion of their once proud navy, a "small" flotilla that by Earth standards would still be pretty frightening. The worldship could be one of their space-cities.

Besides, maybe they didn't do orbital bombardment not just because of fuel shortage (it might still be a concern though, one amongst many - technological regression, overpopulation, food shortages, disease, the collapse of their barter economy, etc.). Maybe they didn't do orbital bombardment because they didn't want to incur senseless casualties and all they had left for orbital bombardment were terrifyingly deadly weapons, which were built to deal with Mogar's fleets.

Part of the ineffectiveness of their orbital bombardment might be the presence of obscene ABM systems on part of humanity, thanks to the Goddamn Cold War Weird. The aliens thus had to come in close to ploink our lasers and stuff.
They wouldn't be able to absorb much in the way of material casulties. A minority of their fleet would be precious battleships, relicso f a once proud fleet. Even if they're decrepit, undercrewed and well out of their prime, they're the only defense that the habitat ships and space-arks have. They can barely afford to loose one or two. It's a huge gamble - if they pull it off, then they can likely settle, if they fail, they'll be dealt and incredibly serious blow that will likely doom the remnants of their species. This should be the desperate, last chance push of a dead civillisations trying to cling desperately onto life. When they loose the war, it should be implied that it is only a matter of time before their fleet is picked apart by raiders. That sort of thing should be a formative learning experience for the peoples of earth, about how not to deal with aliens. In a sense, it should be clear that while we did not provoke the invasion, there would be good reasons why it occured. The aliens might not even invade earth as a whole: they might only actually attack nations they're having a beef with. Even with the more powerful UN, OZ Comix! Earth is not a unified political entity.
Agreed. But how worse off the aliens are depends on the size of their ragtag fleet. I'd like to think that the alien navy had at least hundreds of military vessels, to watch over their thousands of space-arks and habitats.

After the war, their military power would be halved (at best), and they'd really be worse off. But they had to try, due to their alien politics, particularly pressure from a weary populace that wanted a new home and wanted it NOW! The aliens could've had their sentiments riled up and stuff, some of the political leadership could've roused them while more cautious voices were ignored. The military could've been split over those who didn't want to take the risk, and those who underestimated Earth and thought that if they delayed any further, then the degradation of their military systems and the threat of fuel shortage would end up neutering them and making them totally ineffective.

After their defeat, they did end up neutered and ineffective. Too bad.

EDIT:

Hey, if the aliens attack even just a single nation, won't all of Earth - for all its political divisions - react as one anyway? It'd make sense for the aliens to attack the nations that would put up a fight, namely the ones with nukes and aerial battleships and such.

Dystopic shitholes like the Philippines won't even blip at their radar.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Ford Prefect »

If, say, America had war declared on it by aliens, why exactly would the, say, British counter-declare war if they have no actual reason to? And why would the aliens attack everyone, as opposed to just the people they have specific problems with? We're talking about a desperate people who must be cautious, given their position. I mean, the fewer people they have to fight, the better. Someone like Britain is going to pick a fight with a bunch of aliens just for the hell of it. However, I'm not some sort of expert. It was just a suggestion, in any case.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Why would humanity even believe that the aliens are just gonna stick with America and aren't, say, destroying the biggest military in the world to make EX-TER-MINATING everyone else easier? Who would believe them over good old (human) Uncle Sam?

We're humans. They're not humans. For all reason and logic's worth, we're still a bunch of mob-mentality monkeys and that's how we roll, mang.

And the UN could also have a treaty that ensures mutual defense of all member nations in case if aliens tried to ruin somebody's shit. Hell, NATO could've had a clause that ensures defense not only against Soviets, but also against Martians (and other aliens).

Unless the aliens are so HUEG that the other nations are like "I have a wife and children! Take them, not me!" ala Homer Simpson, forsaking friends and allies to the goddamn aliens whose inhuman worlds are the only assurances everyone's got that they won't be killed in their sleep...


Since Gorbachev wore cowboy hats with Ronnie von Reagan, he might've decided to back his supervillainous senile superbestfriend against the alien scum as well. That would've brought the Warsaw Pact in against the aliens, who already have to contend with NATO.

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von Reagan would've shown his appreciation by inviting Gorby over to his fortress, wherein they both don cowboy hats and monocles and have a fun time reminiscing about how both of their once-great regimes used to oppress the crap out of the common man.


(Those LA riots in Comix could've been hippies and libruls and gangbangers and coloured people alike uniting and marching en masse to spite the Von Reagans by trying to egg the Castle's LIGHTNING SHIELDS. To celebrate the end of the Von Reagan Regime, you see.)

(In revengeance, the Castle could've sent its stormtroopers out to beat the living crap out of those unwashed heathens with stick. These guys could look like Civil Defense from Half-Life 2.)

Speaking of which, back when the Regime was in full force, Hollywood would've been a HORRIBLE place to live in. Castle von Reagan was FULLY ARMED and OPERATIONAL, and there could've been strobe lights and search lights sweeping the hills at night, with sirens and alarms or synthetic-voiced announcements booming as the lights beamed across the landscape, and there could've been Civil Defense or Reagan Youth troops patrolling the night and enforcing curfews and checkpoints...

:twisted:


EDIT:

I just saw Tears of the Sun and I was thinking of ripping it off.

Fidel Castro will replace Bruce Willis, and Cuban commandos the Navy SEALs, on a mission in Angola during the Civil War to save Cuban aid workers and medical people trapped in disputed territory.

The final scene will be that of MiG-21 Fishbeds raining death upon the combined UNITA and South African forces while Hind-Ds come to extract the surviving Cubans, who are all big damn heroes for saving the women and children from the South African and American-trained boy soldier deathsquads.

(Actually, I think it should end with everyone being killed and Fidel being the only survivor. But that might be too GRIMDARK.)
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Magister Militum »

Since when do German's wear cowboy hats? :D

And Shroom, tell me your joking when you're talking about Regean having his own youth movement and ruling over LA like the Combine in ]Half-Life 2. Please?
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

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Shroom Man 777 wrote:Why would humanity even believe that the aliens are just gonna stick with America and aren't, say, destroying the biggest military in the world to make EX-TER-MINATING everyone else easier? Who would believe them over good old (human) Uncle Sam?
Because provoking a potential enemy who can control the ultimate high ground is totally retarded? Let's be honest here - if a bunch of aliens started taking a single country and that country alone, and made no attempt to assault other countries, do you think every other country would start attack these aliens? I mean, it's not like they're some sort of unknown factor out of the cold depths of space; it seems now that the earth has actually had dialogue with them. The aliens are angry and desperate, but they aren't schizophrenic psychopaths. Strategic analysts might look at the aliens fighting the US military and say 'it is expected that their fighting strength afterwards would be far too depeleted to successfully mount an invasion of any other major nation in the world'.

I mean, yeah, we're all human, but so what? We've been killing each other in our millions and billions since we've been able to record history. The fact that we're all human never mattered in any of the hundreds and thousands of conflicts throughout history. The sheer amount of brutality that humans are willing to direct towards each other is staggering. I don't think it's a given that if a sovereign alien nationstate declares war on a human nationstate that everyone in the world would retaliate. It's only when threats span the globe that humanity is likely to actually cooperate.

I'm not saying that this is how it should be, it was just a suggestion. I mean, if you want to make the conflict deeper and more interesting, then make it deeper and more interesting. I mean, you gave them this interesting backstory but it still basically turns into 'aliens assault entire world; humanity ruins their shit', which is like some sort of betrayal of an intrinsically interesting idea. Frankly, the idea of powerful metahumans going onto some alien worldship to mess them up actually disgusts me, simply because it is a total departure from the idea of the people who are considered superheroes being superheroes. They're not thugs, they help people. Aliens are people too.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

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Hence my idea for a peaceful ending to the conflict. Not all the metas, mind, need even be on humanity's side. The Tellurian would be the prime example here- war, no matter who the perpetrator, will truly, in the end, ruin nature's shit. And the Tellurian just can't let that happen. If that means occassionally stopping human ventures in the war, there you go.

But the RAWR KILL stuff is just stupid. As is, come to think of it, the Reagan-wank.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

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You know what, yeah. The amount of stuff that has become attributed to von Reagan is getting really silly, and I pushed for making him von Reagan in the first place. Von Reagan stealing nuclear weapons and storing them in his castle? I like that idea of him having a castle, transported brick by brick from the old barony, but having it as some sort of ridiculous doom fortress filled with megatons of nuclear death is stupid. Seriously, you're running the entire concept into the ground. It's not even characterful.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

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Ford wrote:Strategic analysts might look at the aliens fighting the US military and say 'it is expected that their fighting strength afterwards would be far too depeleted to successfully mount an invasion of any other major nation in the world'.
I don't think that the American military is mighty enough to defeat the aliens on their own. Even if the aliens are a ragtag fleet of survivors from a ruined star nation, a star nation is something of an entire scale beyond a disunited little planet that's just beginning to be spacefaring.
I don't think it's a given that if a sovereign alien nationstate declares war on a human nationstate that everyone in the world would retaliate. It's only when threats span the globe that humanity is likely to actually cooperate.
There are still perceptions. Just because some wouldn't want to retaliate doesn't mean others won't want to. There is still public opinion and reactionary reactions to take into consideration. Look at how the world banded in support of the USA just because a bunch of big buildings got blown up.

If you want, maybe we could have something like the USS Maine (right?) in the Spanish-American War. The Maine got sunk in suspicious circumstances in Cuba, sparking the war. We could have something like a UN vessel, an International Space Station, a Chinese aspirin factory in Yugoslavia, something that ends up dragging other (frightened and uncertain) nations into the war.

(Maybe the post-war whatsits could've seen some public backlash, if it's discovered that various governments did not help in trying to prevent the war.)

Besides, NATO would be brought in on it. As perhaps would the Warsaw Pact, since von Reagan and Gorby are great friends.

Wait, the Warsaw Pact didn't exist by then! Maybe during the pre-war alien-human diplomacy, which happened years before the war's onset, during the 80s, the then-Soviet Union would've actually sided with America's decision in an actual show of solidarity despite the Cold War and shtick. Which would lead to Russia and her allies being factored into the alien war plans.
I mean, if you want to make the conflict deeper and more interesting, then make it deeper and more interesting. I mean, you gave them this interesting backstory but it still basically turns into 'aliens assault entire world; humanity ruins their shit', which is like some sort of betrayal of an intrinsically interesting idea.
I don't think Aliens versus (just) America would be an interesting idea. But it does give opportunities for America to go "FUCK YEAH!" when they emerge victorious, amidst the rubble, with the good old Red, White and Blue waving up high. Truth, Freedom and the American Way beats Alien Scum Any Day! But that's really silly and uncool.

Nah. Besides, this is an interesting spin on the whole "aliens assaults entire world" in that they're NOT big badguys and the whole thing is treated as just another conventional war, but instead of two Earth nations, it's an entire alien exile fleet versus the major military alliances of Earth (NATO and ex-Warsaw Pact).

It's already more interesting than stereotypical stuff like ID4 or Mars Attacks (I love that movie) or War of the Worlds in that the aliens ARE people. I don't see how restraining it to just Aliens versus America with other nations just spectating and thus reducing the amount of special effects and preventing Britannic from throwing the Sphinx at alien death-walkers (if the Brits are in on it) will make things "more interesting".

If it's gonna be a big event, let's make it a big event.

We did need a catalyst event to bring the UN in together, making it stronger, giving it an entire Spacy contributed by great powers to deal with whatever strange circumstances may happen next.

The great powers submitting sizable military space assets to the UN could be a precaution to prevent such a wasteful war from happening again. It would keep the great powers from jumping the gun, which was what happened here. The stronger, Spacy-equipped UN would exist so that there won't BE any interstellar wars unless the UN Secretary General mandates interstellar war.

The UN prevents nations and power blocs (NATO, Warsaw Pact, etc.) from jumping the gun. For all we know, after ID4 and the whole fiasco with the invasion, NATO could've been disbanded (due to backlash and other reasons). The Warsaw Pact... well, by then it wouldn't really exist anymore.
Frankly, the idea of powerful metahumans going onto some alien worldship to mess them up actually disgusts me, simply because it is a total departure from the idea of the people who are considered superheroes being superheroes. They're not thugs, they help people. Aliens are people too.
They go into the ship to negotiate and to show the alien leadership the futility of the war. Not to kill them all or something. The heroes go into the worldship to try and reach an accord.

Of course, all the parties would breathe a sigh of relief since then there would be a respite from the war and there would be an actual re-engagement of negotiations.
Moby wrote:But the RAWR KILL stuff is just stupid. As is, come to think of it, the Reagan-wank.
WHAT rawr kill stuff? I already said that nukes won't be used over population centers, that the aliens go near cities precisely to dissuade nuclear weapons, and that the war will be that of the aliens' militaries versus the militaries of the combative nations of the Earth, that the aliens already avoid using the most horrible weaponries of their arsenals.

And it was also proposed that in Comix, the use of nuclear weapons would be less restrained than it is in real-life.

I fail to see the problem here. It's just another war. It's not even a stereotypical campaign of systematic extermination (unless that alien ship hovering above Israel did something very bad). There is a breakdown in negotiations, the aliens decide to attack, power blocs and alliances and nations react, humanity defends itself, the war lasts for a week and it's tough shit for all sides, and it ends with the heroes - perhaps with some UN diplomats in tow - going into the mothership and showing the aliens that it's all a bad idea and a mistake. And then the aliens decide to fuck this shit, pack up, and leave for whatever greener pastures there are.

If the alien exile ships are more many, and if their military is a bit bigger so that the loss of a couple (or a dozen) city ships won't mean that their entire nomad civilization is doomed to be defenseless and ripe for the picking from space pirates, then there's still faint hope for them.

The Reagan-wank is purely guilty pleasure cartoon supervillainy. I don't think a lot of the sillier stuff will be canonized beyond being referenced like Elephant Seals in Per's stuff.

Vic also tells me that the Tellurian would be against the aliens. Since they're, well, not of this Earth.
Ford wrote:Von Reagan stealing nuclear weapons and storing them in his castle? I like that idea of him having a castle, transported brick by brick from the old barony, but having it as some sort of ridiculous doom fortress filled with megatons of nuclear death is stupid. Seriously, you're running the entire concept into the ground. It's not even characterful.
It's silly, I know. Fine, he doesn't need to keep the megatons of nuclear death, but the castle still needs its lightning shields.

Yeah, the Castle won't have its own detachment of Combine Civil Defense.

This thread IS about mad ideas and those are some rather mad ideas, proposed but not entirely carried out.

For one, I don't think either Siege and I are seriously thinking of writing the adventures of Vladimir Putin and Nikolas Sarkozy travelling around in time in the Chrono-Kremlin, with Putin teaming up with Quartermass to save the fabric of reality while Tricky Nick goes on seducing green alien space babes.

Would've been awesome, though.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

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Shroomy, I wasn't actually saying that it should be just against America. I was using it as a convenient example. I could have said 'France, Bulgaria and Zimbabwe' or any number of things.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

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Well, it'd be underwhelming if they just took on one nation. If NATO and the former Warsaw Pact got brought in on it, it'd be cool.

As for minor powers, well, if they don't have anything that can hurt the aliens, then they wouldn't be engaged anyway.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

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Hmm, the backlash over the ID4 idea is surprisingly long, but not that unexpected. Let me offer some more ideas, but this time concerning the alien side of things.

It seems that we're modeling the invaders as a BSG-esque ragtag fleet of civilians refugees and battered military. Of course, Shroom points out why they could still have significant punch - dozens of remaining battleships and all that, but stretched thin to protect hundreds of freighters, liners and mobile habitats. It's a matter of scale. But whether it is plausible for them to take on the entire Earth military or just the American military really depends on how much the aliens are willing to commit to win the war, and "winning the war" may not even involve crushing all resistance from the enemy combatant. Let me explain.

The leadership of the alien fleet might be fairly fragmented. On one hand we have the Adama-like hardline admirals who are responsible for protecting the ungrateful civilians, and they know it. On the other hand we have the ungrateful civilians themselves, who chafe under the draconian martial law and want a greater voice in managing their own affairs. This is not including the role of the aliens' religion (I'm not very clear about this since I don't watch BSG, but I gather it is rather significant), or as Shroom mentioned, the physical and cultural segregation between the civilian and military populations on their own ships. Stuff like this is a gold mine for misunderstandings and deception among the aliens themselves. Not to mention the tensions that already exist - the civilians who may or may not have completely adapted to a culture of austerity, depending on how long they have been vagabond, and a military which is already in worse straits because ammo and spare parts don't grow on hydrophonic farms. And here comes Earth,a green planet which the aliens think they deserve with the fiery fervor of wandering the desert for forty years, starved and hounded by Mogar's pursuit fleets, Trans-Yuggothian pirates, giant space bats and goodness knows what else. It certainly explains why they didn't just help themselves to the Asteroid Belt. They just want real soil beneath their feet, goddamn it.

But fulfilling their goal sort of isn't easy. For one thing, conquering a planet from space is already a total crapshoot for the aliens. The fleet is short on ortillery as it is, and they have nothing like the numbers required to actually land and occupy significant swathes of territory. Any kind of ground presence where our weaponry isn't the equivalent of sticks and stones bouncing off their invulnerable armor is going to bleed them dry in the long run. As big as their fleet seems to us, Earth is simply too big for them to manage. I guess there is only one real option for them - bombard military targets and launch "demonstrations of might" and so forth until the Earthlings agree to hand over some territorial concessions (of course, it's impossible for various countries to agree on what to hand over, so that's trouble). A favorable peace deal, you might call it, which means that they were always ready to step up to the talking table when humanity gave the right signals. And Ford reminds me here that they might demonstrably succeed - their weapons technology is presumably the product of centuries of mature starflight, which would make our Cold War frenzy of ABM development look half-assed no matter what. So why did they lose?

I think we're agreed here that this won't be a knock-down drag-out war where the aliens conveniently park all their assets above our cities where we can get at them, so Shroom's talk of "squadrons of city-killers" can be disregarded. There will be a few orbital bombardments, yes, and squadrons of fighters coming into the atmosphere to shoot things. The aliens may well be going as all-out as Earth would be, stretching military muscles they haven't used for decades, and there are bound to be accidents. We will have admirals laying out grandiose war plans because they have been itching to direct a proper war for ages butting heads with quartermasters who learned the hard way to hoard every single erg and round; alien Bill O'Reillys working to justify the invasion on religious grounds versus the inevitable minority of secularists and atheists, cowed civilian leaders accustomed to doing what the military says but nevertheless worried about "starting trouble", intrepid civilians trying to break through the triumphalist propaganda and so on. Not everyone in the alien fleet would be behind the war, and not even all of the military. The few actual landings may even be a combination of out-of-practice special forces stretching their legs, armored columns led by dishonored officers with death wishes, ill-planned and undermanned beachhead efforts and fundie civilian (but still well-armed) colonists out to fulfill their destiny. Of course, we won't be able to tell the difference at first, but the aliens would have problems treating us as people too.

In the end, both sides will eventually sit down and negotiate a peace treaty, and the aliens will depart licking their wounds and still without a planet. Shroom suggested here that Earth can do any numbers of things to sweeten the deal for them short of giving away any territory. Star maps of the nearby volume, for example, which Professor Quartermass can handily provide. He may trade compressed space technology away to them as well, as I imagine that would help a lot with overcrowding problems. Maybe we would go as far as to let them rest and refuel a bit, but that really depends on how much ill-feeling the war has generated by that point. But then, swift reversals of popular opinion are not unknown in history, either.

I do have one idea for the Earth side, about why the world might readily unite against the alien invaders. Remember those giant space monsters following the fleet, like the cosmic equivalent of rats or hyenas or something? Some of them get onto Earth somehow before the fleet arrives, either by accident or deliberately lured here to "soften our defenses". And then when the fleet comes their warleaders claim that it was their doing all along to make themselves look scarier, with the expected side effects. Earth may not put aside its differences against alien star nations declaring war, but they tend to when facing kaiju.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Perhaps part of the peace treaty could've been humanity allowing the aliens to use a shitload of the Moon's Helium-3 deposits?
Vic wrote:I think we're agreed here that this won't be a knock-down drag-out war where the aliens conveniently park all their assets above our cities where we can get at them, so Shroom's talk of "squadrons of city-killers" can be disregarded.
FUCK! :evil:

(But it is true though :( )

Vic lays it out in terms that even my fungus-feebled brain can comprehend, and goddamn it, he's right.

I think their orbital warships could just spend most of the war orbiting above us, laying down the law, but their capacity to kill would be limited. Ammunition is low. But they're trying to do a quick "Shock and Awe" sort of thing to cow us down to submission - but when it's clear that we WON'T be cowed down by "shock and awe", when we make it clear that they have to COME DOWN HERE and beat us with sticks, that things will get really KILLY, then there'll be second thoughts. Maybe not amongst the military General Ripper types, but amongst the civilian population, amongst those dissenters, amongst those Anti-War Goddamn Homobortion Defeatist Liberal crowds. Oh, they'll make noise.

The crazy social situation up there with the aliens will be crucial when the superheroes go up to the Mothership to talk to the aliens face to face. Come on, superheroes joining hands with the alien peacenik populace in a peaceful People Power Revolution against their own leadership who were in the wrong. That's heroic.

It'd be a Big Damn Hero moment!

Wayward could play his guitar to accompany Archwind giving a Patrick Stewart/Peter Cullen speech.

FREEDOM IS THE RIGHT OF ALL SENTIENT BEINGS

Wayward: Totally, duuude! *guitars*
The few actual landings may even be a combination of out-of-practice special forces stretching their legs, armored columns led by dishonored officers with death wishes, ill-planned and undermanned beachhead efforts and fundie civilian (but still well-armed) colonists out to fulfill their destiny. Of course, we won't be able to tell the difference at first, but the aliens would have problems treating us as people too.
Maybe those squadrons of "city-killers" could actually be over-eager civilian colonists, like those asshole Israeli settlers in Israel/Palestine who are a major cause for contention in both the Jewtown and Musslemen ranks. To the point where the IDF has to evict their own fellow countrymen, who promptly riot against them.

The "city killers" (we'll be using the ""s since they're actually just settler ships armed with mere light turbolasers) could've broken ranks, defied military orders to "get the fuck out of the battlefield" and just gone their merry way hovering above our cities, maybe disgorging their equivalent of paramilitaries and militias that to the eyes of humanity's Omega Troopers and Super SPETZNAS and heroes would seem like the frickin' Persians at Thermopylae. They'd look big and scary and would put up quite a fight.

The war only lasted for one week, so this spur of alien civilian "city killers" going into the battlezone could've been an unauthorized move and the military hierarchy could've quickly told the civilian militias and paras to cut that shit out. I mean, Vic's right. The aliens have never done a planetary invasion before, there could've been all sorts of fuck-ups, mis-communications, overeager attempts, and even friendly-fire accidents! And traffic collisions. A major headache, especially if it took the military a couple of days before they got those goddamn settlers to fuck off (gentlebeings, you can't fight in here, this is a war zone!) and even by the war's end there could still be pockets of fanatic resistance in places like Egypt and the Sahara (and Las Vegas) with Sphinxes thrown at them by Major Britannic.

(For all we know, there might still be some pockets of deranged alienoids scurrying about in the shadows to this day! Well, maybe a couple of madmen who think they're in God's Country, amidst human heathens and crap, wandering the Sahara and having spirit journeys. Maybe not. Who knows?)

The alien's Minister of Truth, Betelgeuse Bob, could've gone "Mission accomplished! The humans are surrendering en masse at the gates of Tannhauser!" to try and cheer everyone up. Those non-military yahoos would then think it was true and jump the gun.

It's a good compromise, between KILLY UBER MEGADEATH plusdoubleplusgood BIG EXPLOSIONS and Ford and Co.'s want for something reasonable and sane.



Anyway, I have an awesome idea for Andrews.

So, the majority of the alien's few but majestic warships were hovering above Earth, while the only thing humanity was dealing with within the planetary boundaries were incursions from overeager civilian settlers forming militias and coming down in "city killers" as well as mere alien troopships led by overeager battalions and rusty special forces out to perform awesome maneuvers and exercises to further "Shock and Awe" us after the initial orbital bombardment failed to make us piss our pants. A further "Shock and Awe"-ing since if they continued their bombardment, then they would've ended up running out of alien artillery and would've had to resort to stuff like... say, using the downright nasty teraton turbolasers reserved especially for Mogar's pursuit fleets and the Giant Space Bats (whose superluminal shrieks create entire asteroid belts).

Now, Andrews decks up in his super-awesome-suit since he discovers the alien's weaknesses. Namely, they AREN'T as awesome as they seem to be. That they're actually in a bunch of rickety near-derelict spacecraft and are low on minerals, that they need to mine more lumber and construct additional pylons. So he goes up there and uses his awesome powers of entropy to disable one whole alien vessel. Hell, maybe two. Could've been the flagship of the fleet, the capital vessel of one of the big Generalissimos. Andrews would've made it a floating little hulk running on emergency power, with nothing to spare for weapons or shields.

Making it vulnerable for whatever remaining surface-to-space weapons systems there are left on Earth. Like naquidah nukes!

Anyway, it would've been a shocking blow and would've forced the military to reconsider things. If those cruiser warships are truly important to securing their ragtag fleet of innocent civilians, then Andrews would've scored an awesome mission kill (i.e. rendering an enemy incapable of combat, just as good as dead). He would've been so big on CNN!

Maybe Andrews designed his one-man spaceship space suit to blast off into space not because he knew what situation the aliens were in (or perhaps he had his suspicions after being part of the team sent to scavenge alien wreckage from those "city killers", but was still uncertain). Maybe he blasted off into space as part of a one-man spur of the moment recon mission. Then when he found out that the aliens were low on lumber, he decided to Take Matters Into His Own Hands.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

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I'm gonna stick this in a doublepost since this is in no way related to the prev post.



There was discussion, long time ago, of Archwind's wife, of how she's possibly in the SuperDep or the UN. I was thinking...

Of Von Reagan.

Yes, you will groan in horrer but hear me out!

During the 80s, the reign of Von Reagan's Regime, we have him calling the Soviets an Evil Empire and things got a bit worse between both power blocs, to the point where the cool of D'entete got uncooled. With Reagan's crypto-fascism and, well, his Real Life assholeries that would make the Real Life Bush Administration blush, so it's not hard to imagine how Comix! under him would be worse. Sure, there WON'T be frickin Combine beating the crap out of celebrities in Hollywood who go out at night past curfew, but still.

Aside from the deregulation of industries and turning LA into a wasteland, there could've been stuff like the Patriot Act and that aforementioned Metahuman Regulations Acts and stuff. Sure, we largely decided that a MRA in today's Comix would be largely benign, but would it be so under Von Reagan?

No, there WON'T be shit like Marvel with their Civil War and crap, with Anthony Andrews killing Archwind and the Goddamn Crow donning Archwind's costume and going around beating Klansmen or something before WORLD WAR MAN LAW happens and Rock Stronggo (Man Law) returns from PLANET MAN LAW. Nah. But still. We've got unlawful wire-tapping today, and why not back then? There could've been a lot of unlawful, unconstitutional and downright bad things done to normal people and to goddamn communist sympathizers and to metas as well. It won't be as horrible as the McCarthyism days, though, trust me on that.

We already have canon incidences of metahumans being forced to join government sanctioned death squads. Suicide squads, taskforce Xs, Unit Zeroes. Today, it's just Unit Zero. But what of back then? The whole operation to conscript convicted metahumans into black ops could've been *slightly* more... widespread. Still a state secret, but still larger than Unit Zero's squadful of suicide soldiers. Another one of the CIA's "great" ideas.

Anyway, I was thinking that this would get blown and it would end up being public, and it would be worse than the whole Iran-Contra affair for Von Reagan.

(I guess Kreuz would get spared from being publicized since he wasn't a metahuman, and thus wasn't in the compiled lists... which end up being traced to the Metahuman Registration Act, in another scandal. And even if the CIA's black ops get blown out of the water, it doesn't mean it'll stop. It just continued doing what it did, but on a smaller scale - thus Unit Zero and its squad-based operations.

The former head of the CIA's metahuman black ops division might end up just like Oliver North, becoming a big Right Wing political pundit. Like Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, or Joseph Goebbels.)

Anyway, the thing is, Archwind's wife - Mrs. Peck - could've been the one to blow this story wide open. Maybe she would be like Lois Lane? A snoopy goddamn journalist? But not JUST a journalist like Lois Lane. She'd be an awesome activist, one of the people in Von Reagan's Lists or something (just like Stephen Colbert after the White House Correspondents Dinner ended up in Shrubya's shit list), an outspoken critic of the regime, a proponent for metahuman, homohuman and transhuman rights, so on and so forth.

Someone on the public stage like Bobby Blackwell (Ebony Archer's husband), someone controversial, someone whose side Archwind's on. Archwind himself might have had some problems with Von Reagan too. I mean, come on, even if you take the "von" out of Reagan, if it was just Reagan and not something amusing, Archwind himself IS amongst the most powerful weapons on America's side. The Soviets had Manifester and Comrade Felix, and they were in the military and loyal to the Party. Reagan and a lot of people in the government might have so WANTED Archwind to be like that for them, to have him be their own soldier as well. Superhuman Arms Race and so on.

But Archwind doesn't roll like that. He's not for Truth, Freedom and the American Way. He's just for Truth, for Freedom. The rights of all sentient beings. ;)

While the von Reagans can't do shit about that and won't even risk offending Big A's sensibilities, they'd still be butthurt. Archwind himself would think that what they're doing is wrong. Metahumans are people, not policy-pieces, whether they're Big Damn Heroes or luckless metas who end up getting in jail and then getting coerced into whatever it is

ANYWAY. Back to the whole metahuman black ops scandal. This whole thing would cause the wholescale reform of the Metahuman Registration Act, its gutting, disembowelment, and reconstitution. This would cause the dissolution of whatever Department of Superhuman Affairs was active in Von Reagan's administration. There'd be a newer better MetaRegisAct, a new SuperDep. And Archwind's future wife ended up leading them! She'd be the boss (wo)man of the new SuperDep and the one who creates the new Registration thing.

Instead of wiretapping and domestic spying, it will have the benefits of socialized healthcare! Free meta-gene checkups, and discount therapy for developing meta-abilities! It's like the Patriot Act versus SCHIP in modern day American politics. Except the Billy Lightning (Comix!) and Obama (real life) administrations will end up choosing socialized healthcare instead of unconstitutional acts of espionage on American citizens. ^_________^


Also, the scandal of convicted metas being coerced by the CIA, plus a whole slew of other problems regarding metahuman rights in other places - from Soviet gulags to Australian aborigine Auschwitzes - would thus force the United Nations to create TAU CETI.

The Transhuman Apprehension Unit - Central Enclosed Terminal Institute (or something)

A place in the goddamn Antarctic where the elite come to be broken. Where metahumans are safe from violations against their human rights, and where they'll never have a chance in hell of escaping unless they serve their time or get paroles.



The whole social and political climate during the Von Reagan regime could've shaped many of lives, not least of which is of Michelangelo Gabriel, the birdman attorney at law from Harvard who's a proponent of civil rights and metahuman rights and all that - a true man of the law. The plight of the people back on those dark days could've inspired him to fight the good fight!

And maybe Anthony Saint could've helped in the whole unconstitutional treatment of metahuman prisoners. Isn't that what he ends up doing anyway, in one of the later stories of BLACK HUMOR, Ford?



I like these interesting political allegories. See, I can take Von Reaganism seriously! Von Reaganomics! Everything with 'Reagan' on it gets a +von!
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Siege »

I would generally advise against inserting too much pet peeves into this 'verse. I'm not a big fan of Reagan, and in fact I think I've been pushing the whole 'Von Reagan is Comix' Dr. Doom' angle fairly hard, but let's not go overboard-- the man wasn't Mussolini Reborn.

I think the main trick with Von Reagan is to pass him off as an obviously flawed, but still likable, president. Some of his policies might not have been for the better, and he might even have green-lighted some pretty dubious programs in his time, but we should at least be able to understand where he's coming from. This is why I take issue with some sort of 'PATRIOT act for metahumans' being enacted by Reagan: it just smacks of overt villainy, which we ought to try and avoid.

Massive military expansion: yes, deregularization: yes, vaguely paranoid government: yes. Even the tension between Von Reagan and Archwind I can get behind. But IMO it just has to end there.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Magister Militum »

Also remember that the window of opportunity that allowed Bush to pass the Patriot Act through Congress would not exist during Von Reagan's time. True, the policy of detente did unravel a bit and a considerable program of militarization did occur, but the all present fear of America being struck by terrorists, as was seen post-9/11, or America being undermined by communists from within, as was the case during the Red Scares (there where two, you know) would not exist. As such, it would be much harder to sell Congress and the American public something as drastic as the Metahuman Registration Act that you proposed.

I should also note that having Reagan doing such obviously unconstitutional, fascist things would have severe consequences that I not sure you have fully comprehended. If it was indeed worse than Iran-Contra, then it is possible that Reagan could have seen a call for impeachment if it became clear enough that he was involved in some fashion. If his plans are exposed to the detail you suggested, then I can't see how he could possibly hide behind a fall-back guy.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Malchus »

SiegeTank wrote:I think the main trick with Von Reagan is to pass him off as an obviously flawed, but still likable, president. Some of his policies might not have been for the better, and he might even have green-lighted some pretty dubious programs in his time, but we should at least be able to understand where he's coming from. This is why I take issue with some sort of 'PATRIOT act for metahumans' being enacted by Reagan: it just smacks of overt villainy, which we ought to try and avoid.

Massive military expansion: yes, deregularization: yes, vaguely paranoid government: yes. Even the tension between Von Reagan and Archwind I can get behind. But IMO it just has to end there.
Agreed. Shroom, I'll admit, putting in von Reagan in Comix was pretty fun and funny. However, there can't be too much of it, and as it stands there is already too much not-quite-positive stuff that's starting to be attributed to von Reagan. It made him go from some glorified reference (which I like, and was hilarious) to some kind of Ubermensch-wannabe cartoon supervillain on steroids (which is not all that fun and will get really old really fast). That really won't roll with how we structure the Comixverse as still holding some sort of "realism", and so far most of our really batshit characters are lower-level minor vilains and anti-heroes. Von Reagan, however, is a president and is much more highly visible and held much more accountable for his actions than any street level shmuck. And if we're gonna hold on to the Comixvere as still being rational to a degree, then he can't go around abusing his power like that and basically acting like Doom without someone taking him down--be it the rest of the government, other governments, or superheroes. And it would be easy since, unlike in-hiding Austerlitz or the secretive Serpents, he's staying in classic visible villain lair-style Castle Von Reagan. Everyone knows where he is! And I doubt any personal defenses he puts up would be enough to stop any higher tier metahuman who feels he has crossed the line, and if he's actively anagonistic with Archwind...

Anyway, limiting ol' Ronnie's dickery to what Siege suggested is fine. Anything over that is, well, gratuitous fanwank.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Oh, pooh!

Mang, I'm just trying to figure out a source of social turmoil - such as the ones we discussed some time ago about supers, vigilantes and heroes, and the government and its institutions (such as law enforcement).

I've made vague references of it in Archwind's profile, and in Mike Gabriel's too. It doesn't have to happen in Von Reagan's watch, I don't know. If Mike Gabriel was rather old, it could've happened in the Civil Rights days. If he's younger, then it'd have to be the 80s or the 70s.

Perhaps instead of overt villainy, it could've been a case of "if only the Fuhrer knew" (which is strangely appropriate). And when the news of it came out, Reagan ended up blasting those shitpieces over at the CIA and keel-hauling the DCI?

Maybe it happened on earlier in his administration, and he could've blamed it as something he inherited from the previous administration like "Goddamn Jimmy Carter!" or "Richard Nixon!" and he could've resolved it with suaveness and panache, making him look like a Big Damn Hero and making him very likeable - scoring plus points in the polls and making metas and etc. rather impressed with him.

It's all part of the plan, you see.

We can blame this guy. Look at that feral grin on his face. He looks... evil.
Siege wrote:This is why I take issue with some sort of 'PATRIOT act for metahumans' being enacted by Reagan: it just smacks of overt villainy, which we ought to try and avoid.
Maybe it could've not been an overt PATRIOT Act. Maybe before Reagan, the old SuperDep was already rather corrupt or something - implicit in the whole secret CIA plots to acquire metahuman soldiers.

When it got blown out of the water, Von Reagan would've made those guys commit seppuku. Then he would be forced to, very publicly, carry out reforms on the whole SuperDep and the various Metahuman legislations to make them better.

He'd do it with a smiling face, waving his hands to cheering crowds of meta-activists who thinks he's undoing the wrongs of previous administrations since he represents in "Change We Can Believe In", but in truth he'd actually be rather displeased with it.

Then Archwind (and his wife) go on and thank him for being so nice, and then he tries to forge "closer ties" with the Big A in the name of fuhrer and fatherland. Trying to make him into America's own Manifester or Comrade, trying to inspire him with patriotism and apple pie!

Too bad Pat would be just rather lukewarm to the idea, shrug, and thank the Pres. for a good time and fly off to save some people in some place no one (not even Von Reagan) cares about.
Malchus wrote:It made him go from some glorified reference (which I like, and was hilarious) to some kind of Ubermensch-wannabe cartoon supervillain on steroids (which is not all that fun and will get really old really fast).
He'll still be a glorified reference for fun. I don't think he'll need an article made about him.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Ford Prefect »

And maybe Anthony Saint could've helped in the whole unconstitutional treatment of metahuman prisoners. Isn't that what he ends up doing anyway, in one of the later stories of BLACK HUMOR, Ford?
No. The facility which Ethan Black 'infiltrates' is an experiment to create an environment which could contain Sophie, should the need arise that she be contained. It just happens to, as a side-effect, be an extremely secure prison.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Hmm... my latest spat of ideas have been pretty hit or miss, but this IS a Mad Ideas thread. So I'm gonna post one more.

Back months ago I proposed to Vic a sort of Anti-Tellurianite from the forgotten tenth planet of the Solar System - Kal'Terra. Kal because that's the name of another famous alien asskicker, and Terra because that's basically a word for planet, earth and stuff. Basically the idea was for this forgotten world to be a literal tombworld - with a surface littered with the desecrated carcass of its once flourishing biosphere. The remnant lifeforms on it would've been subsumed into this singularly thick death-black tar, an undead organism that is a diseased incarnation of the planet's world-soul. It would see Earth, so full of life, and seethe with contempt and jealousy, and hunger at the scent of our world's life force.

Now, it went like this. Anthony Andrews and Hero Labs dabbles in space exploration and its astronaut team finds this world, lands on it, and is subsequently contaminated and infected by the putrid sludge of that hateful planet's undead biosphere. Originally I was just thinking of one astronaut, a chick, getting turned into an Anti-Tellurian. But why not the whole three astronauts? They can be like the Kryptonian criminals from Superman 2, Zod's gang. But that was then, and this is now...


ANYWAY, I ended up revisiting this idea as I was thinking of Erika Deschain's hippie surf elves and how they were once a majestic civilization that communed with Mother Earth and built magical skyships. And how their civilization declined when the spirit of the Earth got a bit iffy, and how they withdrew to their enclaves centered upon wellsprings of youth and stuff - and how this was somewhat related to the Tellurian. There was some shtick about the Spaniards, perhaps on the behest of the Vatican, sending Conquistadores out to hunt down the elves and find their enclaves - and this is how Marquessa's ancestor ends up with a flying boat.

But that is besides the point. Now, I return to the idea of "Kal'Terra", a dead planet that hungers for the very soul of Earth itself! The idea probably stems from that recurring theme of the Final Fantasy series, most evident in Spirits Within with that huge evil asteroid planet coming down to Earth to kill us all. The black goo could also be taken from the Spidermang series, and that symbiote stuff.

I was thinking. Kal'Terra's undying exodite biosphere might have evolved into a parasitic entity - and it could've scattered its spores throughout the nine vectors of our solar system! One of the ideas I'm toying with is that it might or might not have caused the decline of Mars*... but Vic says that smacks of "C'tan Syndrome" in that Kal'Terra would be the cause of everything and that would be too wank and LAEM. But that wasn't my only idea.

Perhaps Kal'Terra's influence could not just be physical, but also... 'spiritual' or 'psionic' or also 'intangible'. A bit like Earth and the Tellurianitisms. Perhaps the aforementioned parasite spores of the dead planet could seep within the crust of Earth, infecting it from within, making it grow diseased as Kal'Terra tries to assimilate it - to make it like itself, like how a virus destroys a cell to spawn more pathogenic strains. This syndrome could not just affect the world, but the living and non-living creatures on it. It could have a corruptive influence as the essences of an entire dead planet's decayed ecosystem seeps into those who come into contact with it.

It could be used to tie in Tellurianites to all sorts of stuff. We can have Technotheocrat scientists drilling deeper into the Earth's crust come into contact with some of Kal'Terra's physical manifestations and they would grow corrupt and spread their corruption to their peers. We could see some Technotheocrats subverted by this organoblasphority in the eyes of the Sub-Nuclear Pontifex, and they would become rogue and their members would become something not entirely unlike Chaos from 40k.

Unknowing innocents could inhale cursed vapor, and microorganisms could seep into their brains and connect them to the deathless dreams of that dead planet, and they would slowly go mad and turn to heathen cults and so on - praying for the inevitable demise of Earth and the coming of a new age, wherein all life on Earth will be the willing hosts of a superior undying organism.

This is just something I'm idly toying with, anyhow. It's all big and grand, but I doubt anything will really come out of it. It's full of weirdass concepts and New Age weirdo stuff. But then again, I didn't run the Anti-Gods through the Mad Ideas thread much at all. Just thinking of adding more to the Comix Cosmology, is all.


* Mars' decline doesn't have to be caused by the 'KT Event'. The worldsouls of entire planets could just naturally die on their own, or naturally grow ill. Mars isn't dead yet, it could just be on a lull, and Kal'Terra could've had nothing to do with it. It could just be a natural phase.

However, in its declining state, the Martians did try to launch an attack to conquer Earth in order to save their civilization. Perhaps Kal'Terra's "vampirism on an undead planetary scale" could just be something similar. Except whereas a declining Mars has still-living Martians to do the attacking, an undead Kal'Terra instead has to resort to more... esoteric means.
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