(MOAR) Mad Ideas!

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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Vagrant Orpheus »

Archwind and who else? Only two or three people with superpowers is pretty harsh, but could be interesting. It'd be Watchmen all over again!
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Magister Militum »

I'm somewhat unconvinced of the practicality or need for something like Comix Supreme, frankly. While it's an interesting thought experiment, I echo Shroom's suggestion that we keep it in a story format rather than, you know, restarting from scratch.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Ford Prefect »

Vagrant Orpheus wrote:Archwind and who else? Only two or three people with superpowers is pretty harsh, but could be interesting. It'd be Watchmen all over again!
The Communist Manifester is confirmed for being the basis for the second actual superbeing on Earth. I have considered a third based on an old African hero concept, but that's more up in the air. I have also considered Solaris, but I'm not sure if I'd count him as being 'on earth', so to speak. Note that even if their powers differ in exact application (at this stage it's a matter manipulation versus energy manipulation difference), they will all share the same source of power.
Magister Militum wrote:I'm somewhat unconvinced of the practicality or need for something like Comix Supreme, frankly. While it's an interesting thought experiment, I echo Shroom's suggestion that we keep it in a story format rather than, you know, restarting from scratch.
I think you've misunderstood a little Mag. This isn't anything of a reboot, it's one man's deranged experiment in alternate continuity and reinterpretation - much like Orph's CTAS. :) While I haven't decided on anything yet, I think it is more likely that I would advance it as a story format. It's certainly not intended to supplant Comix!, and doesn't have the sort of scale to do so.

Anyway, I have a possible shortlist of character who would appear in such a project, though keep in mind in 'not as we know them' sort of context:

Alexander Thaddeus III
Uther Armagh-Strathclyde
Ulysses Stirling
Amy Gardner
Fidel Castro
Anthony Andrews
Marco Torres
Jason Goldstein
Hiram M. Richards
Han Yuchang
Zhao Bing
Stuart McHenry
William Lightning
Harold Quartermass
Mogar the Conqueror
Phaeton the Wanderer
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Malchus »

Oh dear, ULTIMATE Hiram? A part of me is almost scared, yet another is quite curious.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Ford Prefect »

Malchus wrote:Oh dear, ULTIMATE Hiram? A part of me is almost scared, yet another is quite curious.
Truth be told, I have little more than general ideas on that list, the most general of which is 'no explicit superpowers or magical abilities'. However, given that you've mentioned it, I imagine that I would play him a little like Sam Rockwell's Justin Hammer. Successful, but an awkward, bumbling tryhard who might try his hand at being ruthless and unethical, but not really capable of it. His expertise would remain in gun fetishism, which serves a purpose to the 'super team' of the piece, which could be said to be an international equivalent to Mag's Task Force Ghost ... just with way less superpowers and powered armour. :)
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Magister Militum »

Well, regardless, this sounds pretty promising. The Undying Goldstein in a world were superpowers and such are incredibly rare should be interesting, to say the least.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Ford Prefect »

Well, that's the thing: Ultimate Goldstein wouldn't have the regenerative healing factor and retarded aging that the real deal has. This means that his history as a World War II veteran will probably have to be shifted forward, probably to Vietnam - I can't even do the Korean War without making him eighty. :) The abilities possessed by characters will generally be no better than what a human can achieve (in the Watchmen sense of the word ... minus any kind of psychic powers).
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Vagrant Orpheus »

I take it then that the level of technology wouldn't be to the same scale either then. This leads to an interesting idea, at least to me. Since comic-level tech is only a small part of Wayne Banner's empire, he could actually do pretty well out of this. Also, I'd be curious to see your take on either Banner or the Crow, in this more serious revamp. I'd expect Crow Supreme to be dead within a few years of starting a vigilante career, even without the hyper-violence (cause Ford is all realistic and would find Crow's canon refuge in audacity to be... well, audacious). Personally though, I am curious to see Stark/Saint (hey, legitimate female Saint testbed), Hammer/Hiram and Wayne/Banner in the business world, how they run things differently, what sets them apart from each other. Ford has a particularly 'real' way of handling things which means I would expect to see much cut, but the stuff that is left expanded upon with interesting material and alt-takes.

If it does turn into a story, the best bits would be little cameos for some of the people that have been 'baselined'. Like travelling to Africa and seeing Alex Cassidy working at an orphanage for AIDS kids, or ending up in Russia and meeting Felix Ivanov, the humble weapons technician, or the famed literature of Ilya Ilvich Alekseev, whose gifted hand seems able to take any concept and weave it into a masterpiece of text.
The abilities possessed by characters will generally be no better than what a human can achieve (in the Watchmen sense of the word ... minus any kind of psychic powers).
So bullet timing then? ;)
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Ford Prefect »

For the purposes of this project, certain characters who are outright reliant on the existence of particular supernatural factors would not be appearing at all: this means no Jurgen, no Saint, no Sophie Windsor, no Pai, no Stephensens etc.

The level of technology is different, yeah. Quartermass Supreme is still brilliant, but he's not brilliant enough to build an interdimensional Cadillac or a time travelling yacht. That said, he is responsible for the creation of some kind of equivalent to the release of fusion technology, though it is stolen from him and he is discredited as a scientist (by Anthony Andrews, incidentally, accentuating a different side like with his 'dark' version, Doctor Entropy). It would be high tech (probably, I think it will be set in 2020, but I could set it earlier, maybe even in the relative past), but it would be high-tech in the Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda sense, not the super science sense. Though speaking of CSW, I think there will probably still be a Soviet Union (maybe, anyway).

To be honest, I'm not sure whether I would have any customed vigilantes in the traditional sense at all. Thisi s the reason why Wayne Banner isn't on my shortlist, because Wayne Banner is The Crow. It'd sort of like having Bruce Wayne in a setting without Batman: kind of strange. Obviously, of course, Anthony Andrews is there, but when you think about it, he's primarily known for being a business person, and if you take away his entropy-based powers you still have a genuine technical genius with excellent business savvy (this is more or less the same thing with Hiram: he is primarily known for making and selling guns, not his own personal magical ability). Admittedly saying that the distinction isn't all that great, but I just get the feeling I wouldn't use Wayne Banner all that effectively. Admittedly, I could come up with something latter, but it is early days. On one hand, I kind of would enjoy doing a 'realistic' story about The Crow, and maybe this is the right sort of place, for want of a better phrase, but I'm not entirely sure how I'd handle it. Yet, anyway. :)

In any case, I think I'm getting more of a handle on who Archwind will be. Probably with an origin as a child soldier in the Middle East, trained and armed by ... JOHN BAYLOR, TERRORIST ENABLER.
Vagrant Orpheus wrote:So bullet timing then?
Hey, peak humans. :lol:
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Damn!

Oh well, with Fidel Castro still there with Amy-chan maybe Comix Supreme can totally still have Fidelis!

^______________^

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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

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Ford Prefect wrote: In any case, I think I'm getting more of a handle on who Archwind will be. Probably with an origin as a child soldier in the Middle East, trained and armed by ... JOHN BAYLOR, TERRORIST ENABLER.
bleh, silly frodanimus!

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That is John Baylor.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

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AND THIS IS MY MECCA!!!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! :lol:
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

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Shroom Man 777 wrote:Oh well, with Fidel Castro still there with Amy-chan maybe Comix Supreme can totally still have Fidelis!
Of course it will.
bleh, silly frodanimus!
Ali Al Sarches >> Yuri Orlov.

Orlov talks the talk, but Prince Ali walks the walk.

Just like John Baylor Supreme.

Anyway, during my five hour shift of blandness in the freezing cold, I thought a little more about the backgruound on Comix Supreme. I know that, at some point, the Earth was visited by an alien possessing the vast sub-quantum powers of the Cosmic Id (or whatever I end up calling it), a kind of universal energy field which can ... do pretty much anything when you have enough of it. I imagine he was on the run from Mogar, who is the most powerful user of the Cosmic Id in our galaxy, and he hides out on Earth for a while. I'm not sure of the time period exactly, but he's not around for long, but it's enough for certain elements of governments to form an international group that monitors emergences of the Cosmic Id - which basically never happens, so they end up chronically underfunded and borderline independant.

This group actually names Archwind, as 'Code: ARCHWIND' is the randomly assigned designation they give Arch. Code: GRAVETIDE is the designation for Marida Zaitseva, the USSR's best kept secret and semi-rogue super revolutionary, who is dedicated to starting a Glorious World Revolution. Given that she is basically Superman with Magneto's power set ths is working out pretty well for her.


Also if Solaris does show up, he will actually be SOYUZ STEPHANOVICH remade by Phaeton into a new form of life.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

That's pretty damn cool, Frod!

With a GLOBAL WORLD REVOLUTION, does this mean Fidel Castro will be a scrappy REVOLUTIONARY? :D
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Ford Prefect »

Probably, yeah.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Invictus »

Hah, so Anthony Andrews-S is this universe's Lex Luthor.

The Phaeton Supreme of yours sounds very interesting. My idea of it would be to keep Phaeton non-humanoid altogether, in fact re-conceptualizing it as an incandescent, planet-sized machine made of degenerate matter and with weakly-godlike capabilities, roaming the galaxy in a million-year patrol to weaponize everything it comes across. To what ends? Nobody knows. However, as far as it seems Phaeton-S doesn't work at direct cross-purposes against Mogar-S, although it itself does not employ the Cosmic Id (instead relying to Xeelee-like superscience). How's that?
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Ford Prefect »

Reimagining Phaeton as a machine seems a little too close to Ultimate Galactus. However, him not making use of the Cosmic Id is set down in stone. One way or the other Phaeton will be undisputed master of the material. Contemporary with the universe, Phaeton has no need of something like the Cosmic Id, a power he likely considers inelegant, wild and inherently limited.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

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I'm sorry, I genuinely fail to see the point of any of this. As it is, Comix is already pretty much devoid of any actual content: the only thing we have right now is a set of unfinished stories and the rambling, unpolished ideas of half a dozen people in this thread, many of which are mutually incompatible. Apart from that it's just character concepts which no-one ever seems to do anything with--so what could possibly be the point of writing a bunch of different takes on characters that no-one is creating any stories for anyway?

The primary focus of a comic book inspired universe should be to produce engaging stories, and that's just something I'm not seeing at all right now. Y'all might want to focus on that instead of on high-falutin' alternate conceptual edgy takes on existing characters with a twist. In fact, if I were Dictator of Comix I'd impose a moratorium on new characters: you would only be allowed to introduce a new character after you produce some proper story material about your old ones, and there would be a major decluttering effort by scrapping, purging and decanonizing useless, failed and boring characters from the canon.

Also, and this is something that's been irritating me for some time now, I really loathe how some folks seem to be developing backstory material and taking it for granted without telling everybody else about it. What the shit is this talk about "Cosmic id"? Where-ever the hell came the insistence some characters are "espers" from, why was it somehow assumed that Mars had a Tellurian equivalent, and who the fuck decided Jurgen was a "lesser sage" without my explicit consent? Was there a meeting of the Board that I missed or slept through or something? 'Cause if not, you might want to throw this sort of stuff in the group before treating it as implicit gospel.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

I always thought that Jurgen was an awesome sage, not a lesser one. :)

Well, it'd be great if Ford writes stories of this Comix Supreme he's proposing. I mean, I can dig even stories that are totally whacked and out of canon if they're fun and awesome. Like Peregrin's AAoI! If they're entertaining, they can totally blenderize and distort the "established" canon. Like Peregrin's AAoI! As long as there's a story to be told, yeah.

(I'm just waiting for Ford to repost his characters and ACID again.)
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

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Siege wrote:I'm sorry, I genuinely fail to see the point of any of this. As it is, Comix is already pretty much devoid of any actual content: the only thing we have right now is a set of unfinished stories and the rambling, unpolished ideas of half a dozen people in this thread, many of which are mutually incompatible. Apart from that it's just character concepts which no-one ever seems to do anything with--so what could possibly be the point of writing a bunch of different takes on characters that no-one is creating any stories for anyway?

The primary focus of a comic book inspired universe should be to produce engaging stories, and that's just something I'm not seeing at all right now. Y'all might want to focus on that instead of on high-falutin' alternate conceptual edgy takes on existing characters with a twist. In fact, if I were Dictator of Comix I'd impose a moratorium on new characters: you would only be allowed to introduce a new character after you produce some proper story material about your old ones, and there would be a major decluttering effort by scrapping, purging and decanonizing useless, failed and boring characters from the canon.
So when I actually do want to do something with the universe, something that I have motivation to work on and explore, I shouldn't just because it's some twist on existing characters? I mean, where do you get off, exactly, telling me that I shouldn't do something new because I don't do anything with the characters I already have? Here's a newsflash: when it coems to current Comix!, you have more half-finished stories than I do (by a grand total of ... one) and over a dozen new characters which you yourself have done practically nothing with. And to be honest, I don't really mind about that at all. People write on the basis of what motivates them, and real life interferes with that motivation, which can completely disappear. That's just math; I don't have to explain that we're just hobbyists doing stuff for fun. Though speaking of fun and motivation, I am no longer having any of the former, and I don't have any of the latter. Idea = dead before it got on the water.
What the shit is this talk about "Cosmic id"?
It's something I made up explicitly for my alternate universe idea. It would have imposed nothing on the actual universe itself.
Where-ever the hell came the insistence some characters are "espers" from
'Esper' is a word which means 'person with psychic powers', it derives from ESP. It also has the benefit of not being as lame sounding as just calling them 'psychics'.
why was it somehow assumed that Mars had a Tellurian equivalent,
This was an idea that Invictus and I discussed literally years ago, long before you'd actually done anything significant with Mars. Or, in fact, anything with Mars at all beyond mentioning that it has life there.
and who the fuck decided Jurgen was a "lesser sage" without my explicit consent?
It's a term I made up to describe powerful magicians with mastery in multiple schools of magic, one step below a Greater Sage, with mastery in all of them. It's totally innocuous, and only imposes a degree of sorcerous significance ... you know, like Jurgen actually has?
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

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Ford Prefect wrote:So when I actually do want to do something with the universe, something that I have motivation to work on and explore, I shouldn't just because it's some twist on existing characters? I mean, where do you get off, exactly, telling me that I shouldn't do something new because I don't do anything with the characters I already have?
Oh, I'm sorry--here I thought the purpose of this thread was to generate feedback on ideas posted. If you want to put some twist on existing characters by all means, I ain't stopping you. I am telling you now however that as it has been described thusfar I think the endeavour pointless. What use is an alternate take on existing characters when there's nothing going for the existing characters in the first place?
Here's a newsflash: when it coems to current Comix!, you have more half-finished stories than I do (by a grand total of ... one) and over a dozen new characters which you yourself have done practically nothing with.
Oh, if it isn't the old tu quoque; how drearily predictable. Yeah, I've written a whole bunch of half-finished stories, many of which I'm probably going to scrap, this in addition to all the characters and stories I already scrapped from Comix canon since the O1 reboot. Hell I probably scrapped more work from Comix canon than some other people generated in the first place. What's your point?
It's a term I made up to describe powerful magicians with mastery in multiple schools of magic, one step below a Greater Sage, with mastery in all of them. It's totally innocuous, and only imposes a degree of sorcerous significance ... you know, like Jurgen actually has?
No, it's not "totally innocuous": it implicitly presumes there is some sort of universal ranking of sorcerous mastery that explicitly places one character above another, even though they never had a single goddamn thing to do with one another and might in fact well be utterly incompatible. It's bloody wizardry, not a judo contest. And what the hell does "mastery in multiple schools of magic" even mean? What "schools of magic"? This is exactly what I'm talking about; if we're going to use terminology like this it should (A) be agreed upon beforehand by everyone whose work might be affected and (B) it shouldn't raise more questions than it answers. As it is the only thing I'm getting here is that "I like this term", or "it's something I discussed with somebody else in a venue that isn't this forum". That's not how consensus works, and that's not how a consensus-based universe works.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Vagrant Orpheus »

And now it becomes clear to me why I've had a nagging desire to create my own comic-inspired universe :P

Personally, I have no issues with stories of any form being written, it's all contributing. As for scrapping or decanonising a whole bunch of it, probably a worthwhile idea but you'd find it hard to get people to relinquish their various things, and you'd get people who like the stuff others want to decanonise. The good thing about these 'alternate stories' is that they do exactly what you're proposing in decanonising useless or otherwise interfering material, by ignoring it and altering it.

Fuck it, screw you guys, I'm going to work on Powered Dominion instead ;)
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Ford Prefect »

Siege wrote:Oh, if it isn't the old tu quoque; how drearily predictable. Yeah, I've written a whole bunch of half-finished stories, many of which I'm probably going to scrap, this in addition to all the characters and stories I already scrapped from Comix canon since the O1 reboot. Hell I probably scrapped more work from Comix canon than some other people generated in the first place. What's your point?
My 'point' is that you shouldn't jump in here and get so judgemental over something which you yourself are also guilty of.
No, it's not "totally innocuous": it implicitly presumes there is some sort of universal ranking of sorcerous mastery that explicitly places one character above another, even though they never had a single goddamn thing to do with one another and might in fact well be utterly incompatible. It's bloody wizardry, not a judo contest. And what the hell does "mastery in multiple schools of magic" even mean? What "schools of magic"? This is exactly what I'm talking about; if we're going to use terminology like this it should (A) be agreed upon beforehand by everyone whose work might be affected and (B) it shouldn't raise more questions than it answers. As it is the only thing I'm getting here is that "I like this term", or "it's something I discussed with somebody else in a venue that isn't this forum". That's not how consensus works, and that's not how a consensus-based universe works.
Schools of magic have existed for literally as long as the Mary Lamb article has, which is years. When I first posted it, no one expressed any concern over how it was explicitly noted that different groups from different places around the world have their traditions and codified systems of performing magic. It was an element of character article, and that of Daniel Stephensen's (and in his case his search for the secrets of more and more groups is an integral part of his backstory), to which no one raised any objection. Am to assume, therefore, that this is a contentious piece of information? We all regularly establish parts of this universe without consultation. I mean, did you really discuss the metaphysical balance between Tchernobog and Saint Anthony the Machinist, prior to posting it? I honestly can't remember all that clearly, but I'm fairly sure that Tchernobog, cornerstone of reality, appeared without any prior discussion in the article on The Prussian. And that was fine: no one raised any objections then, so it would be safe to assume that it is now established. It's the same thing with the establishment of Hermes Trismegistos as the father of modern magic. I can understand being annoyed by stuff like the Martian Tellurian, which did not get any real discussion (I can't remember if it came up ont he previous board), but the terminology about 'schools of magic' is not that. I'm pretty sure it even predates Jurgen Baccara in his earliest incarnation, so it's not exactly as if I have invoked something which retroactively alters things.

Also, of course there's a magical heirarchy. It would be daft to assume, for example, that some two-bit magician running a herb shop in downtown Crowtalon is on the level with someone like Susan Nixon. Every individual magician is going to have their own level of expertise, raw talent and power, knowledge and experience or whatever, and that will add up. Jesus, it's something which you even alluded in The Night Jurgen Baccara Saved Christmas. It's just logical to assume that some magicians are better than others, and I can't see what's so controversial about looking at the top level magical characters and giving them a name of some kind.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Vagrant Orpheus »

Schools of magic just seems sensible. Every culture is going to develop different ways to utilise it, I personally feel it ridiculous to assume it wouldn't be as such. And they've been around for ages, so yeah.
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Re: (MOAR) Mad Ideas!

Post by Ford Prefect »

To be honest, I don't want this to go on become an internet argument, because I like you guys enough that I don't enjoy them. I think Siege has a point ... even if i just disputed most of them. :)
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