Sovereigns of the Stars Supreme, revisited

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Re: Sovereigns of the Stars Supreme, revisited

Post by Invictus » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:47 am

I think I did portray the captive Isopterids as too passive, yes. Active resistance and agitation for rights would have happened before and after the reconciliation, along the whole spectrum of how radical it was. You could have the Isopterids agreeing to help clamp down on their own Guyver-terrorists, as well as intellectual movements from the human side arguing that purging the Isopterids outright would make the Cascadians no better than the colonials, especially as the war wore on. It could even be sold to the moderate majority that the Isopterids were "earning" their rights with their terraforming work!

The Freeworlds' quandary would also include the fact that *need* to build more efficient infrastructure pronto as resources from the rebelling Laurentian colonies dry up, so buddying up to the potential enemies within instead of the declared enemies way over there would defuse a potential war on two fronts. There's certainly pragmatism in that the Freeworlds didn't want to handle an expeditionary war and a full-fledged insurgency at the same time.

By the way, you description of Isopterid COMMUNES makes it sound like they actually built slums and settlements in places on the Cascadian worlds where the environment literally too bad for humans to live in. Hell, it could be those original underground alien ruins, now made even worse with acid falls and sewage runoffs and stuff.

--

A related question is how involved were the various politically autonomous proto-Freeworlds in the grand colonization endeavor and as a result were dragged into the ensuring boondoggle. Would we have Cascadian polities who are only nominally aligned with the Freeworlds (and they definitely aren't the Terranates), contributed and benefited minimally from Laurentian colonization, and are certainly minimally involved in the ongoing war and are basically sort of quaint and irrelevant today, having caught on late to the cosmopolitanization train?

One purpose that the colonial corporations served was to distribute out the economics of the colonization effort, letting smaller pre-Freeworlds who didn't have the ability to launch expeditions of their own bear part of the costs and reap some of the rewards. Ironically, it could have been the more stable polities during the pre-colonial age that were like "eh, let's invest prudently" and ended up missing out on the economic boom. The boom of the colonial age could have engendered the inter-Freeworlds trade to encourage some degree of unity.

But ultimately, what makes the Freeworlds today be describable as "fighting a war" instead of the situation being "a bunch of Freeworlds each fighting their own wars, and some which aren't"? Can a Freeworld choose not to fight? Or was there some degree of "we form a united front against the uppity colonies, or else" behind-the-scenes legbreaking going on as the war progressed?
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Re: Sovereigns of the Stars Supreme, revisited

Post by Steve » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:24 pm

Hrm. It sounds like you've got fertile ground for ongoing political tension. The Freeworlds could be in a situation where there's a low-level, simmering political feud between, oh, Centralists and Federalists, the former favoring required united action, the latter believing each world should decide for itself whether to help against the Laurentians and other issues.

And since I know how much Shroom loves Western SF tropes repeating American political and military history... I'm actually drawing this from my knowledge of 19th Century Mexico, specifically Mexico's first few decades of existence when much of its political turmoil came from the division of Centralists and Federalists (and Santa Ana's tendency to play the feuding groups in his repeated bids to reclaim power).

So the Freeworlds' campaign could have this constant restraint and influence, that if the central authority pushes too far the entire federation may pull apart, but at the same time they can't just let this stuff slide due to the issue of resources, etc.
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Re: Sovereigns of the Stars Supreme, revisited

Post by Shroom Man 777 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:04 am

Central/unitary types butting heads with federalist/autonomist/decentralization types is a recurring universal thing anywhere and at any time and the Freeworlds and Terranates ARE meant to be Space Mericas.

I'll respond to the other ideas later. Brain's kinda eh.

And I'm actually fine with a lot of things in American and Western history, except they're not usually the things the standard fare sci-fi dare to tackle.
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Re: Sovereigns of the Stars Supreme, revisited

Post by Shroom Man 777 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:15 am

OK, sorry for the delay lol. Vic and I talked about this a lot on FB...

Anyway, perhaps during the initial conflicts between the Freeworlds and the secessionists, the Freeworlds' decentralization meant that a lot of their forces out there quelling the Fringe World Yokels were just PMCs since the large trans-system organizations with most stakes in the fringe world extraction colonies would be... the megacorps, not the Freeworlds' limited decentralized governments. So the populace wouldn't care, socioculturally, they might even be sympathetic... maybe. Maybe not.

Until the proto-Terranate secessionists strike at the Freeworlds' core, probably a desperate gambit to cripple a megacorp's PMC-capability. But, I guess through a perfect storm involving the use of really high-yield munitions like copious amounts of anti-matter or by targetting a really sensitive area, not only are the megacorp's facilities themselves wrecked... but a load of civilians as well. A Space Oklahoma Bombing, if you will.

This galvanizes the Freeworlds' citizenry and through expert mass media manipulation on behest of the corporations, the Terranate secessionists are portrayed as nigh-barbaric yokels out to terrorize decent core worlder types. Yes, their radical humanism has turned them into humanofascists or whatever. :lol:

This upgrades the Freeworlds' war effort and the decentralized government becomes a bit less decentralized as the population becomes more enthusiastic in stepping on the yokels, it's no longer just the megacorps and their PMCs setting out to beat provincials with sticks.

I guess later on, some lessons were learned when people admit to themselves that the Terranates weren't all wrong, so the decentralized government again becomes less-decentralized to make sure that the megacorps don't end up exploiting more vulnerable worlds, or richer worlds don't end up strongarming poorer ones. So yeah, ironically the actual reforms the initial Terranate protesters wanted ended up getting implemented... decades or even a century after the dispute escalated to a full-blown conflict. But it's too late, there are no take-backsies and the Terranates ain't coming back. On the Freeworlds' end, at least this measure prevents more worlds from going the way of the Terranates, and its accompanied by their more xeno-friendly policies - autonomous Isopterid territories currently have more recognized rights and such than yesteryear/yestercentury's Laurentian colonies that became the Terranates.

I think the Solarians pushed for the pro-psion reforms. Or the cosmopolitanization of the Freeworlds just allowed various groups to push their goals.

Oh and the perpetual threat of Pyrrhon Slaughts also means that the Freeworlds, even during its most decentralized days, nonetheless had a NATO-esque defense network composed of the contributions of member-systems, coordinated and drilled to wage a decently-sized conventional conflict against an overwhelmingly numerous force.

COINCIDENTALLY the Terranates are actually closer to the Pyrrhons... so there's another gripe they can have against the comfy cityworld-slicking Freeworlders. :twisted:
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Re: Sovereigns of the Stars Supreme, revisited

Post by Siege » Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:28 pm

Question that might have been answered somewhere, but I don't recall the answer to: can sentient computers / AI's / compints also be psions?
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Re: Sovereigns of the Stars Supreme, revisited

Post by Shroom Man 777 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:52 am

Siege wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:28 pm
Question that might have been answered somewhere, but I don't recall the answer to: can sentient computers / AI's / compints also be psions?
Hmmm... I guess if the computational gee-whiz is so reality altering, nonetheless because it's not from squishy things, it'd approach the "gnarly mystical cool shit" zenith from the other, inorganic, side of the... spectrum/triangle/whatever. So Telestrons, whatever...

Then again, we HAVE inanimate items that can channel "life force" type psionics... from Apexai PYLONS to, in their own way, contrapsyk tech.

I presume Olympic taking charge of some esoteric field rig could result in him harnessing psionics, but how different would this be from hyperfield manipulation or advanced CI prognostication?

The only difference would be that meatbag psions' manifestations are derived from their irrational natures, the essence of the meatbag consciousness and thought process.

Hmmm... hand one could argue that what psions are doing is actually just catching up to effects that AIs and CompInts already naturally wield, predictive computation, remote brain-scanning, hyperfield manipulation of physical forces, etc.

Okay, there's nothing formally stopping sufficiently advanced technology from doing anything an ordinary psion can do. Maybe we could contrive that there are some effects where CIs can't, through a possible hairsbreadth boundary would be some arbitrary "oh reality is incomputable, the irrational processes of organic minds is the only thing that can somehow touch upon that, POWER OF FEELINGS AND FRIENDSHIP!" pseudo-spiritual stuff that we can then tie into meta-settingbreaking stuff.

But even then, that intangible thing that only irrational meatbags could harness would only mostly be applicable to phenomena that's mostly generated or influenced by meatbags collectively - i.e. Fracture-like 40k warp effects. CIs would have trouble dealing with that.

Other "informational cognetic fabric of the universe" subjects would be susceptible to both alpha-level psions ascending ala Akira and whatever god-machines Telestrons, Apexai, Solarian mad scientists, etc. could conjure up.
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Re: Sovereigns of the Stars Supreme, revisited

Post by Invictus » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:35 pm

That CIs operate on what is ultimate derived from Apexai technology might make them special, too.
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Re: Sovereigns of the Stars Supreme, revisited

Post by Shroom Man 777 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:30 am

Invictus wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:35 pm
That CIs operate on what is ultimate derived from Apexai technology might make them special, too.
Yeah, the CIs might be doing to Solarians' less-psionic-noospheres with the MEMES and DATASPHERE what the Apexais and their tech were doing to Apexai OVERSOUL via PYLONS.
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Re: Sovereigns of the Stars Supreme, revisited

Post by Invictus » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:03 pm

I mean in the sense that CIs may manifest psionic abilities without using specialized mechanisms because they're housed in dimensionally transcendent sub-meson cores, whose working principles were thought up by Apexai engineers who also designed things like Pylons.

On the other hand, didn't we think that AIs in general were more resistant to the effects of the Fracture because they're less flexible, more redundant and more able to error-check their own minds? The same factors might make them less able to just randomly manifest psionic powers like people with brains do, assuming developing psionic talent comes from something random happening in the unplanned plasticity of a brain designed by evolution.

In short, artificial minds don't just acquire psionic powers because they're too well-built for that. But this also implies that you can purpose-build psionic minds...
"This explanation posits that external observation leads to the collapse of the quantum wave function. This is another expression of reactionary idealism, and it's indeed the most brazen expression."
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"...a literary atrocity against the senses..." - Ford

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