Sovereigns of the Stars Supreme, revisited

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Re: Sovereigns of the Stars Supreme, revisited

Post by Invictus » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:26 am

Another idea is that the monastic orders are a relic from a time where Zigonian society was a lot more militarized, and most Zigonians were expected to be members.

I mean hippies and all, but Zigonians have always fought - I assume they didn't settle their philosophical differences with their Shleraac branches entirely via dance-offs. Moastic training could help produce better focus, sharper purpose and better memetic resilience, and the Tsora-mahl back then - bright-eyed ecopunks taking their civilization's first unsteady steps back into space - needed every edge against their post-lizard cenobite cousins, who I presume had an enormous head start in memery prowess.

Only after Zigonian society settled down (relatively speaking) did most lizards no longer feel like they need to join one of the multifarious orders, so they shrunk back down into tiny groups. However, the cultural software would still be there to keep the monasteries as social nuclei and locuses of organizational responses in times of emergency.

Yet another idea is that the monastic orders correspond to old strands of Shleraac cultures themselves - stabilized and deliberately inverted, perhaps willingly by repentant ex-Shleraacites, as some kind of giant "...and think about what you have done" project for themselves and their descendants and eventually, any volunteers who want to share the burden of karma. Hedonism is deliberately swapped for austerity, and the meditation and mental discipline was for practitioners to subdue their own impulses without resorting to removing their cenobite hypersense implants or whatever; I don't see the Zigonians as being willing to go as far as biologically de-augment Shleraccites to pacify them.

I also don't want to evoke real-world attempts to intern and assimilate whole cultures, but something had to have happened to at least reform the Shleraac on the cultural level.
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Re: Sovereigns of the Stars Supreme, revisited

Post by Shroom Man 777 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:02 am

Yes, the latest revisions of the Tsora article touches upon that. The military monks were part of the clash (and they wielded giant cyber-macroorganisms). The defeated members of the Feasts were reincorporated humanely (zigonely?) but yes I like this whole penance thing where reconciled members often chose to be defenders as a form of restitution.

There can be something akin to the holy demons of Buddhism, the ones who by their natures can't comprehend nirvana but recognize those who do and thus protect them!
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Re: Sovereigns of the Stars Supreme, revisited

Post by Invictus » Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:03 pm

Yeah, the point is that Zigonian warrior monks could have preserved the high-powered translizard augments of the Shleraac of old and as a result are absolutely jacked compared to the average Zigonian, though the average Zigonian also has access to Solarian/Cevaucian-level biotech and can achieve similar results.

It's actually the Holy Scale nomad branches, the ones who split off from the other Zigonians before they integrated with the Shleraac and the other modern K-zone civs, that would physically resemble the 'original' Zigonians the most.
"This explanation posits that external observation leads to the collapse of the quantum wave function. This is another expression of reactionary idealism, and it's indeed the most brazen expression."
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REBUILD OF COMIX STAGE 1 - Rey Quirino Versus the Dark Heart of the Philippines
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Re: Sovereigns of the Stars Supreme, revisited

Post by Invictus » Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:10 pm

INTRANOVA (The Society for Interduction and Rapprochement of Noetic Variance) is the pan-Magi body of the Meridian Institute, drawing together its espers from across all the disciplines: psychocosmic theory (you don't need a superhuman mind to think this hard but it helps), transcendental prognosis and risk management (predicting the future), intellectual integrity auditing (doing counter-memetic subversion the direct way), pedagogic science, etc..

The Meridian Institute, or whatever form it took before the Reignfall, was also responsible for the creation of the Promised Pair a.k.a. who we now know as the Sophia and the Allfather, and on the strength of this history, Intranova is also granted the responsibility of looking after the heritage the duo left behind, and this may include the actual, physical site of the lab that they came out of. This also means they have a claim to representing all Magi opposite the Avestavra in Grand Auriga, despite being on the whole smaller and less organized. But hey, Avestals would be perfectly welcome in their clubhouse.

It also means the theoretically the Ministry of Fate has a seat at the table, but there are obvious problems to a Minister walking in and claiming to represent the cult of the All-Father in any convincing way. Which raised the more general question - NEUROM is obviously under the grip of the conspiracy of secrecy, but how much do other parties know?

There may be enough physical evidence from the lab ruins - and certainly enough surviving legends of the Destined Dyad performing mighty miracles across the post-Cataclysm Fracture - for people to know that the Sophia didn't come alone. It's impossible to hide the knowledge that the All-Father existed at some point in post-Reignfall history, and the fact of the Sophia's eventual ascension is propagated far and wide by major Fracture religions today. But people are going to ask: what happened to her obscure (male, if they even get that right) counterpart, then? There are going to be any number of interestingly wrong theories.

From another angle, we have assumed that a working proportion of the Magi oppose the Ministry, recognizing that they work through NEUROM for their nefarious ends. But it doesn't imply that they know that the All-Father is in turn working through the Ministry for his nefarious ends. (Not even most of the Ministry knows that the All-Father exists in the specific "Yeah, our lord and master is actually the Sophia's immortal brother" sense.) Whether it's possible for particularly intrepid Magi to find out is another question, but if *any* Magi know, I don't see how the secret won't come out eventually given the lack of any institutional ability to keep mum. Once a trusted Magi tells a highly placed confidante in Auriga or Meridia*, one of the Ministry's basic conceits would be undermined.

*The Shennite establishment and its Magi seems most open to Ministry infiltration, actually.

Or one can assume that the Ministry has the prowess to silence anyone even outside NEUROM, in which case they have already won. Or other powers also have a reason to keep the existence of the All-Father a secret.

Or, in fact, no Magi knows. There is an impenetrable psychic shadow at the heart of NEUROM, and they're more likely to suspect some festering Neuromonger remnant than the Sophia's own twin - after all, they know that an esper of such power cannot persist on the material plane.
"This explanation posits that external observation leads to the collapse of the quantum wave function. This is another expression of reactionary idealism, and it's indeed the most brazen expression."
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REBUILD OF COMIX STAGE 1 - Rey Quirino Versus the Dark Heart of the Philippines
"...a literary atrocity against the senses..." - Ford

REBUILD OF COMIX STAGE 2 - Advent Rey Returns: REVERGELTUNG
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Re: Sovereigns of the Stars Supreme, revisited

Post by Siege » Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:34 pm

Maybe anyone without top-level Ministry mental engrams and noetic hardening immediately forgets about the existence of the All-Father. Like, anyone can become aware of His potentiality on this stratum but the mere presence of such knowledge within a conscious mind immediately invites the full pressure of His immense astral presence, something inadequately prepared lesser sentiences simply cannot handle.

Those who unwittingly learn of Him at best have that fact immediately sand-blasted from their minds, leaving behind only the gnawing surety that they've just forgotten something of earth-shaking importance. Worse, when the impact of His revelation undermines concepts and precepts fundamental to the structure of the observer's ego, they may be left catatonic or partially insane. But most disastrous are the effects when the observer is an unprepared esper significant enough to be worth of His intrigue, in which case their awareness of Him invites His awareness of them. Needless to say the result is almost invariably corruption, most worryingly of a kind that easily spreads between minds.

So a Meridian esper who succesfully pierces the deepest mysteries of the Ministry immediately gets hit with the full whammy of the All-Father's abracadabra, and might then act as a vector for Ministry hoodoo within the Institute. That would rather complicate any attempt at truth-learning, and also makes the Ministry formidably difficult to infiltrate - which befits is reputation.

This implies the All-Father is something of a threat on the level of a Great Old One or a Chaos God, though, and I don't know to what extent that fits within this universe's framework.
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Re: Sovereigns of the Stars Supreme, revisited

Post by Invictus » Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:46 pm

Nothing about that level of influence strikes me as over the line, on the caveat that it would be the power of the All-Father as well as His Throne, which is a piece of bastard Conduit-tech bloodily reverse-engineered from Vieleren* bones and souls. The earlier idea was that it was made of Cryst shards, themselves salvaged from whatever crystalline superweapon was used to set off the Cataclysm because the Cryst were the only idea for psionic-resonant superweapons back then, but now there are better ideas about the Earthreign's technology and neighbors.

*During the Reignfall, three Vieleren of old human (and K-Zone) stock traveled back to their ancestral homespace to help. They encountered the roving, still mortal All-Father and Sophia in the process, probably swapped ideas, and wrought their own share of wonders in the Fracture. Of the fates of the three, one kept travelling into the cosmic south and eventually passed beyond the Fracture entirely; one settled down and became a tree or something equally mythic; and the last got betrayed and shanked by the All-Father for the precious, precious Apexai juice.
"This explanation posits that external observation leads to the collapse of the quantum wave function. This is another expression of reactionary idealism, and it's indeed the most brazen expression."
-
REBUILD OF COMIX STAGE 1 - Rey Quirino Versus the Dark Heart of the Philippines
"...a literary atrocity against the senses..." - Ford

REBUILD OF COMIX STAGE 2 - Advent Rey Returns: REVERGELTUNG
Coming NEVER

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