I can feel it, coming in the air tonight

[Ford Prefect]

Once upon a time, many moons ago when the world was young, when Omniverse Zero was still king of the silvery stratum of the internet, I was one of those prolific worldbuilders with high flying sci-fi ideals. Though I could never compete with the sheer output of people like Siege or Shroomy, I had a pretty decent level of contribution, and can claim the crown for one of the longest threads in the known Omniverse mostly through cheating. However, over time, my level of contribution dropped off. Months and then year passed without me volunterring ideas for personal universes, instead focussing my work primarily into open source 'verses like OZ Comix! and the original The Solidarity Wars. As is quite clear, even that dropped off, so too has my habit of reading and posting on every new post. I have been dying, brethren, a slow and ignomious death; obscure and unknown.

Well, maybe not. While most of my terrible formidable creative talent has been directed at endeavours not entirely appropriate to Omniverse One, recently I have been feeling something, that old spark which spawned a half dozen universes. That spark which drove The Logical World to ever greater heights of lunacy, that spark which forced me to detail seven thousand years of bad Fridays, that self-same spark which brought an endless array of cataclysmically powerful little girls to life. I think I'm coming up with a new universe.

Don't get too excited, at this point it is largely embryonic. So far, I know that thematically speaking, I want to aim more for space opera than the more 'hard styled' science fiction that I have focussed on over the past couple of years (After, in the Dark and extensive fanfiction project Sol Gundam). Not to the extent of pulp-styled 'rayguns and silver jumpsuits', but still definitely in the realms of space opera. Currently I conceive of there being some kind of galactic federation ruled by a benevolent collection of high level AGIs, and containing a number of alien polities who, while not always getting on all that well, generally don't whack each other over the head that much. Into this galactic milieu comes the great and glorious solar empire, with its stylishly dressed autocrats and marble-hewn space boats and a mandate to conquer the known universe. They're bright, they're driven, they're optimistic.

Only they're young. Some of these species have been kicking around for a thousand years, and it shows. The great and glorious solar empire barely rates as a province for some of the biggest superstates that kicking around. This is pretty much culture shock, and it gets topped off with a small war. Humanity is young and aggressive, but so too is the second synthetic polity in the federation. They've barely been on the stage any longer than humanity, and they were having trouble adapting. Then these dickheads in tailed coats show up and its on. I know I said 'small' and while that true relative to the bigshots, for two polities as smalltime as this it's pretty apocalyptic. No one comes away with a bloody nose: the empire comes away with mangled hands, and their rivals are also sent reeling, though with a different metaphor involving corrupt data. Anyway, craploads of veteran spacemen/nobles get whacked, leaving it to a new generation to take up the mantle of being the best dressed badasses in the universe.

The hereditary nobility in space thing isn't exactly now. As a matter of fact I generally dislike the concept as a vision of the future, because it's basically total nonsense. However, part of me finds the idea weirdly alluring, so here it is. However, I've hit something of a snag. When I think space empire, I actually mean 'german space empire'. All sorts of Germanic sounding names and shit spring to mind unbidden. You might see something of a problem here: one of the most notable universe, if not the most notable universe, in our illustrious history played the Germanic space empire for all it was worth: Old Familiars. At this point I'm not sure where to go: on one hand it feels kind of derivative, but at the same time I actually would like to pay homage to one of the iconic old timers (as well as Legend of the Galactic Heroes, an excellent anime which features space germany as well).

Like I said, this idea is currently quite young, with very little to go on. I have certain twists in mind, like how almost everyone in the empire is nobility (owning a house = landowner = noble), and I'm getting a firmer idea of the other players involved, but not much more to go on. I've made this thread primarily out of egotistical megalomania an interest in having a persistant place to discuss this burgeoning universe with my bros and develop it further.

[Mobius 1]

I'm always behind your ideas, man, and it was pure Moby-bait to throw in the Phil Collins song as icing on the cake.

[Shroom Man 777]

Good to see you back, mangoes.

While the whole heredity in space stuff doesn't work if we're aiming for "realism", I doubt you're aiming for realism anyway since we're all about spiffy-dressed Germanian conquistadores out storming space and kicking down my doors and stomping on my human face with their boots forever. It turns out humanity's a bunch of nobility-ruled dicks fucking around with the tiny dicks belonging to big intergalactic fish? Cool. It can be a bit like Foundation in its bizarro spiffy-future but retroristic anachronistic space Oprah-ness.

Heredity, heredity, heredity... are you still going for your posthumanism thing? Perhaps the hereditary rulers of these noble houses and whatnot are, like, supreme posthumans. If you belong to the ruling elite, with access to all sorts of wealth and technology, you can basically end up making all manner of SUPERIOR DOMINANT GENES for the seed of your loins. Like, some kind of interstellar posthuman eugenics for your postmen.

The ruling class would use their immense resources to design the greatest and best qualified heirs to their throne ever, with each generation taking the best from the past and improving upon it and innovating and adding new through various forms of genetic and non-genetic engineering. They can even literally end up having actual-factual BLUE BLOOD!

To prevent stagnation where a Noble House's lineage ends up being "inbred" because they only fixate on improving the genetic design of their predecessors, they can possibly "interbreed" with the other Noble Houses, which also sport their own advanced postmanity but perhaps with different design pathways. Nobles can also marry commoners and merchant princes and whatnot who might possibly also bring their own brand of postmanity to the table!

the genetically designed figurehead of a very wealthy planet

YES.

[Ford Prefect]

While the whole heredity in space stuff doesn't work if we're aiming for "realism", I doubt you're aiming for realism anyway since we're all about spiffy-dressed Germanian conquistadores out storming space and kicking down my doors and stomping on my human face with their boots forever. It turns out humanity's a bunch of nobility-ruled dicks fucking around with the tiny dicks belonging to big intergalactic fish? Cool. It can be a bit like Foundation in its bizarro spiffy-future but retroristic anachronistic space Oprah-ness.

There is an analogy: I am the empire, you are the democratic outcasts. Your survival is assured only because there are bigger, benevolent fish who like you enough to stop me oppressing you.

Heredity, heredity, heredity... are you still going for your posthumanism thing?

I'm not so sure. One of the 'characters' in the original idea that spawned this was an engineered posthuman killing machine, but an element of space opera is that it doesn't tend to be transhuman. Sol Gundam is a setting which is practically defined by how there aren't any baseline humans left in the solar system, so I'm not sure if I want to repeat that here. I'm on the fence at the moment. Also, you idea, while it has merit, is very familiar with the practices in one polity that appears in Sol Gundam, where dynastic families of mecha pilots trade their latest posthuman advancements through strategic marriages. Also, there's like a half dozen or more alien species to contend wih, and I don't want to have to think about where they would take transthingamy. On one hand that level of detail would be really impressive, but I'm still pretty lazy and I want to try and avoid some of my own tropes for the moment.

[Siege]

Nobles wearing tailcoats in marble spaceships? Versus synthetic aliens, duking it out somewhere near the shoulder of Orion? I say hell yeah, that's definitely worth exploring.

[Ford Prefect]

Well, they're probably not made out of marble, but there might be some on the bridges. I imagine there would be a fair amount of aesthetic wankery going on, but I don't see much wrong with the officers drinking expensive alchohol in the wood pannelled longue while oneo f them plays a grand piano with keys made out of space ivory.

Also is there a cooler term for the leader of a nation than 'Kaiser'? I don't think so.

[Shroom Man 777]

I forgot to say that those genetically designed figureheads of very wealthy planets, due to their genetic design, would be both excellent leaders and nigh-invincible obscene killing machines.

With this solution, you can have noble leaders ending wars between their countries by signing a peace treaty... whose terms are decided by both leaders having a duel to the death.

[Ford Prefect]

I honestly don't think I can carry that idea through, shroomy. It just doesn't seem to fit in my (admittedly barren) conception of how this unnamed universe works. I don't want to make genetic engineering a serious feature of the universe; as I said earlier, modification is the defining trait of another work of mine.

[Invictus]

You know I'm up to contribute ideas, as always. The first thing that comes to my mind is the major alien species in the setting. Apart from yonder Young Synthetics, how well do they play with humanity and/or each other?

Also is there a cooler term for the leader of a nation than 'Kaiser'? I don't think so.

Khagan: "Khan of Khans"?

[Shroom Man 777]

Yeah, I get you. And, well, I can always use these ridiculous post-ideas (POST-IT NOTES!) for SOTS anyway.

[Ford Prefect]

You know I'm up to contribute ideas, as always. The first thing that comes to my mind is the major alien species in the setting. Apart from yonder Young Synthetics, how well do they play with humanity and/or each other?

I haven't quite gotten that far yet, but I have some fledgling ideas. The old synthetics, who are still running under the name 'Ophanim' in my mind, view humanity with the same sort of mysterious delicacy they treat everyone else. Oneo f the bigger races fit my 'horned space elves' thing which I have tried to use multiple times in multiple works; they're old, weary and powerful, and basically fit as that effortlessly superior elder brother that the empire wants to try and match (then overcome). They're the old school warrior race, and perfected the art of war when we were still in the mud, and they treat us with a certain amount of justified disdain. They are, however, our biggest benefactors. Theo ther species haven't been fleshed out enough for me to really say one way or the other.

Khagan: "Khan of Khans"?

Oooh, I'd forgotten about that one. I have to say, 'Khan of Khans' is pretty high up there. As is Khanate, for that matter.

[Siege]

As much as I like 'Kaiser' as a title (it sounds so nice and imperious), I've recently become very partial to Shahanshah. King of Kings! Might be too Persian for your tastes though.

And I have to say, I've always like the "interstellar benefactor who still thumb their noses at us" idea. Worked out properly in a form of magnificent bastardry that results in much annoyed teeth-grinding no-one can really do anything about. Unfortunately I rarely see it done in a way where the superior space people aren't simply outrageously annoying, obviously morally bankrupt, complete idiotic wankers, or a combination of those three -- but I have faith in your abilities to make it work, son.

[Acatalepsy]

If you go with the Khanate, then when your enemies are defeated they can yell "KHAAAAANN!" at the top of their (synthetic) lungs, and you can laugh and make Moby Dick allusions.

From what it sounds like, you want to play this more or less straight - these people really think they can conquer the universe (or at least the galaxy) and are genuinely surprised when the older civilizations sort of laugh at them and tell them to bugger off. I can sort of see a disconnect between the ruling aristocrats, who are all jingoistic and convinced, utterly, that Humans Are Special and its time for them to assume their rightful place in the galaxy, while the people actually doing the fighting (including some space aristocrats) tend to look back and go "WTF are you smoking?".

[Shroom Man 777]

If you go with the Khanate, then when your enemies are defeated they can yell "KHAAAAANN!" at the top of their (synthetic) lungs, and you can laugh and make Moby Dick allusions.

Oh god, that's just brilliant.

I mean, shit, it's not particularly original, but somehow it like really came out of the left field and made me laugh.

From what it sounds like, you want to play this more or less straight - these people really think they can conquer the universe (or at least the galaxy) and are genuinely surprised when the older civilizations sort of laugh at them and tell them to bugger off. I can sort of see a disconnect between the ruling aristocrats, who are all jingoistic and convinced, utterly, that Humans Are Special and its time for them to assume their rightful place in the galaxy, while the people actually doing the fighting (including some space aristocrats) tend to look back and go "WTF are you smoking?".

Hrm... the aristocrats could be stuck in their core worlds and might end up being completely clueless as to what's it really like in the rest of the world. If we've got a communications lag, this can only be worse.

[Ford Prefect]

And I have to say, I've always like the "interstellar benefactor who still thumb their noses at us" idea. Worked out properly in a form of magnificent bastardry that results in much annoyed teeth-grinding no-one can really do anything about. Unfortunately I rarely see it done in a way where the superior space people aren't simply outrageously annoying, obviously morally bankrupt, complete idiotic wankers, or a combination of those three -- but I have faith in your abilities to make it work, son.

Yeah, there's a really fine line which I think a lot of writer's find it too easy to cross. If anything, I want to aim for a more ambiguous set-up where even if the empire thinks their benefactor is being totally and completely unreasonable, there's generally a reason for it. But at the same time, I don't want to present the empire as being totally negative, either. I don't really like the sort of pro-human nonsense that comes out of some works that have this set-up (there's Mass Effect, for example, but it's got nothing on this excreable John Ringo novels), but at the same time I don't really need to be anti-human, either. Not here, anyway.

From what it sounds like, you want to play this more or less straight - these people really think they can conquer the universe (or at least the galaxy) and are genuinely surprised when the older civilizations sort of laugh at them and tell them to bugger off.

That's the idea. Prior to first contact, the empire has largely spent its time crushing its various human foes before it. Though eventually it had to face an impressive interstellar human nation running on democracy, they were still totally top dog: they were larger, their ships were better, they could replace them more easily etc. They're used to the idea of being ascendant, and believe a priori that they are destiend to rule the universe. This is, as it turns out, largely impossible. If much of the older generations hadn't been vaporised the empire would probably chafe under this knowledge; now opinions are more widely mixed. University students, for example, are often quite subversive of the nations in which they live, and within the empire the old order has had much of its unaissailable ideological position severely damaged.

I can sort of see a disconnect between the ruling aristocrats, who are all jingoistic and convinced, utterly, that Humans Are Special and its time for them to assume their rightful place in the galaxy, while the people actually doing the fighting (including some space aristocrats) tend to look back and go "WTF are you smoking?".

Hrm... the aristocrats could be stuck in their core worlds and might end up being completely clueless as to what's it really like in the rest of the world.

It's important to keep in mind that there are representatives from all levels of nobility within the armed forces, including princes and princesses. There are basically no commoners within the empire, just lesser nobility. Knowledge that excellence in battle brings prestige (humanity is a warrior race, after all), combined with a certain level of noblesse oblige, this generally means that you wouldn't end up with a whole lot of stuffy nobles having no clue what is happening on the frontiers. The frontiers are some of the best places to gain new power after all. Sovereign-level nobility (like dukes) probably have the least representation in the armed forces, which only consolidates their power after the war, but they're not untouched.

If we've got a communications lag, this can only be worse.

It's probable that there would have been a pretty severe communications lag at the beginning of the war, which becomes lessened as friendly polities begin funneling stuff into the empire to support their war effort.

[Acatalepsy]

You know, one thing that hasn't been discussed is the actual tech level. The idea of "no commoners, only lesser nobility" sort of gives me a picture of a future that has elements of singularity and trans-humanism in it, even if in a distinctly human-empire centric frame.

Like a human fleets being comprised of nobles and their retinues - where a single noble's retinue will comprise maybe a hundred people, each with dozens to hundreds of AI subordinates who in turn control thousands of smaller, most stupid and more expendable units. You still have that "For teh Glory!" mindset, and lots of people getting killed, but it means that single nobles acting more or less independently can have huge impacts on the poor worlds that get in their way.

[Ford Prefect]

You know, one thing that hasn't been discussed is the actual tech level. The idea of "no commoners, only lesser nobility" sort of gives me a picture of a future that has elements of singularity and trans-humanism in it, even if in a distinctly human-empire centric frame.

I don't have any clue what the technology of the setting is like; as I moaned about to Orph over MSN I don't even know what the scale is (though I'm just going to say 'pretty small'). As it is, nobility is just an idea, and one which is conveyed to every citizen simply by owning a house. Even if it's a two bedroom apartment, that still makes you a landowner, which makes you an amriger. This makes the majority of nobles fundamentally no different than middle class people in the modern day (though shit is better in the future). It's a cultural convention, rather than everyone owning a massive demense or whatever.

[Magister Militum]

Personally, I've always been fond of King-Emperor or Emperor-King, depending on the nature of your state.

Well, they're probably not made out of marble, but there might be some on the bridges. I imagine there would be a fair amount of aesthetic wankery going on, but I don't see much wrong with the officers drinking expensive alchohol in the wood pannelled longue while oneo f them plays a grand piano with keys made out of space ivory.

Bah, and you said the 6th Imperium's warships were tacky with their heroic murals, fluted marble columns, and other ostentatious shit.

Anyways, I certainly see a lot of potential with this setting, Ford.

Also, there's like a half dozen or more alien species to contend wih, and I don't want to have to think about where they would take transthingamy. On one hand that level of detail would be really impressive, but I'm still pretty lazy and I want to try and avoid some of my own tropes for the moment.

A bit of posthumanism isn't necessarily bad when it comes to nobility and society. I've been dabbling in posthumanism more and more as of lately, and it does indeed led to interesting ramifications. For example, I've been plyaing with the concept of at least one polity creating a 'heaven' of sorts. And then there's the issue of nobles ruling for hundreds if not thousands of years or the prospects of marriages. Ultimately, it depends on you and if you want to branch out to something new.

[Kingmaker]

Well, they're probably not made out of marble, but there might be some on the bridges. I imagine there would be a fair amount of aesthetic wankery going on, but I don't see much wrong with the officers drinking expensive alchohol in the wood pannelled longue while oneo f them plays a grand piano with keys made out of space ivory.

There's an anime series called Tytania that has something like this going on. You might want to check it out if you aren't allergic to anime.

Also is there a cooler term for the leader of a nation than 'Kaiser'? I don't think so.

By the grace of God, Emperor and Autocrat of all the Russias, of Moscow, Kiev, Vladimir, Novgorod, Tsar of Kazan, Tsar of Astrakhan, King of Poland, Czar of Siberia, Czar of Tauric Chersonesos, Tsar of Georgia, Lord of Pskov, and Grand Duke of Smolensk, Lithuania, Volhynia, Podolia, and Finland, Prince of Estonia, Livonia, Courland and Semigalia, Samogitia, Belostok, Karelia, of Tver, Yugra, Perm, Vyatka, Bulgaria, and other territories; Lord and Grand Duke of Nizhny Novgorod, Chernigov; Sovereign of Ryazan, Polotsk, Rostov, Yaroslavl, Beloozero, Udoria, Obdoria, Kondia, Vitebsk, Mstislav, and all the northern territories; and Sovereign of Iveria, Kartalinia, and the Kabardinian lands and Armenian territories; Hereditary Lord and Ruler of the Cherkass and Mountain Princes and others; Lord of Turkestan, Heir of Norway, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein, Stormarn, Dithmarschen, Oldenburg, and so forth, and so forth, and so forth.

Put that on your business card and smoke it.

In regards to transhumanism, it's no so much that a little transhumanism is bad, so much as it's difficult to plausibly have just a little transhumanism. If there isn't some mechanism to control, it can start to hijack a setting.

[Magister Militum]

Well, they're probably not made out of marble, but there might be some on the bridges. I imagine there would be a fair amount of aesthetic wankery going on, but I don't see much wrong with the officers drinking expensive alchohol in the wood pannelled longue while oneo f them plays a grand piano with keys made out of space ivory.

There's an anime series called Tytania that has something like this going on. You might want to check it out if you aren't allergic to anime.

You obviously don't know Ford.

[Ford Prefect]

There's an anime series called Tytania that has something like this going on. You might want to check it out if you aren't allergic to anime.

The problem here is that Tytania is shit and I dropped it after three episodes. In any case I draw inspiration from Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Tytania's older, more respectable, better written, better produced and all around less retarded brother. The original novels for both series were written by the same author, so the fact that Tytania was terrible was surprising and disappointing.

In regards to transhumanism, it's no so much that a little transhumanism is bad, so much as it's difficult to plausibly have just a little transhumanism. If there isn't some mechanism to control, it can start to hijack a setting.

I have to agree. I take transhumanism quite seriously, and I think it is one of the more plausible visions of a space going future, but like I've said, I have transhuman settings, and I'm not sure I really need another one. As the universe develops it may begin to creep in, but for the moment, I am quite happy to say 'no, there is no systematic transhumanism going on here'.

Bah, and you said the 6th Imperium's warships were tacky with their heroic murals, fluted marble columns, and other ostentatious shit.

Man, you've got to keep the mosaics off the bridge.

[Ford Prefect]

Das Reich has a ruler of course. Her Imperial Majesty Kaiserin Hildegard Luise Augusta the First, the Archduchess Lohengramm, etc etc etc. Prior to the war, it was her father, Karl-Johann II. However, during the war, events conspired which landed the crown in the hand of his youngest daughter, a precocious, eccentric and ferocious genius of unprecedented youth. She is, as of the modern day, only sixteen. Legally speaking the Kaiserin cannot really rule at age 16, but the technicalities of the position mean that it is very difficult to convince her otherwise. Despite her eccentricites, such as claiming to be the very embodiment of Victory, it is hard to deny the role she played in strategising what was essentially an imperial win in their war with the young machine people. Her tactical and strategic accumen are second to none, matched only through the extensive experience of her various admirals. Her hotblooded approach endears her to some and drives others to distraction, but it tends to get positive results.

However, she is not as politically savvy as her father when it comes to the home front. The various Electors have support the Lohengramms for a long time indeed, but that is not to say there are not competitors with ambition. Hilde I might well have the force of personality to keep a partly broken empire kicking along like billions of people didn't get cremated, but she operates as though she is unaware of internecine conflict which governs the balance of power between the upper crust nobility. The Kaiserin is the most powerful human being in all of sapce, but as first contact showed, this doesn't necessarily count for much.

Also this is the empire's anthem.

[Acatalepsy]

Sweet.

So there is intrigues and whatnot.

My thoughts would be that, of all things would ensure more conquest. The Kaiserin doesn't need to worry about the people back home as long as she has victories in the battlespace. And given her skillset and mindset, that is of course what she would seek.

The question then becomes who can possibly be a valid target, powerful enough to provide a challenge, but not so powerful that they instantly bitchslap the humans back to the information age. There are all sorts of intelligences in the galaxy that could provide that sort of challenge, intentionally or not.

Some options: the new targets are another synthetic race, but its not a race so much as a league of game players from the various races who are happy to provide a target, if it means they get to have fun shooting back. They player aren't actually fighting , of course - rather, they are using lots and lots of killbots designed for the purpose.

The new targets don't really seem to have much to say, because their largely non-sapient. They are largely non-sapient, mostly because they are an autonmous "immune system" of a civilization that has better things to do than dick around with younger races, and can't be bothered to / doesn't think it's right to exterminate them to get rid of the annoyance. The patrons of humanity are more interested in seeing how they develop than actually helping, but do so anyway to build up a rapport of later options if/when humans get over this whole galactic conqueror nonsense.

[Ford Prefect]

The thing with the setting is that there aren't any acceptable targets, at least not yet, and I'm not sure I want any. The empire is a member of the galactic federation, so almost all of its conflict is strictly diplomatic. Hilde is good at this because as far as she's concerned there's no real difference between arguing with words and arguing with guns. I don't really want a setting about war, it's just a setting which has war in it.

[Siege]

Oh, she's got that Clausewitzian attitude toward diplomacy, doesn't she? ""War is diplomacy by another means"? I like that. I also like the fact that the old Kaiser was named Karl-Johan .