Byzantine Imperium

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Fingolfin
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Byzantine Imperium

Post by Fingolfin »

I am going to use this thread to lay down the ground work for the Byzantine Imperium, which is in many ways a rip off from the Imperium of Warhammer 40K, but it bears my personal stamp, along with how the Byzantine Imperium is supposed to fit within the history laid out in the SDNW games (from the 2nd and the 4th game).

No doubt when I am done with some of the ground work, people are going to say I'm indulging in wankery, but quite frankly, they can stuff it. I never agreed with some of the craptastic drama Games Workshop indulges in, and quite frankly, this is how I see the Imperium in my own style of things (along with my personal world view). I will post up bits from the SDNW4 wikia with further elaboration on certain aspects of history next.
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Heretic
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Re: Byzantine Imperium

Post by Heretic »

Just so you know, and don't take this offensively, but in the past(?) we had a member who kept making the same world-building premise over and over and over again. It would either be something with the Byzantium, the Kaiser's Reich or anything with GERMANIANS!, and it would usually include Warhammer 40k and/or Lovecraft. Sometimes those things would mash. The shenanigans and stuff continued for a long time (this individual got better and is actually working on some pretty neat stuff) to the point we roll our eyes when the words 'Byzantine', 'Columbia' (America's old 1900-1910 incarnate), 'Kaiser/Reich' or 'Warhammer 40k' appear. Just saying that so you get the jist of it if some people appear skeptical or non-responding.

But because you are new and haven't caused anything that rustle our jimmies, feel free to do as you please. Yeah, Game Workshop does seem to cause drama, though I don't know it too intimately because Warhammer 40k is more expensive than crack. Can't wait to see what you'll do.
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Magister Militum
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Re: Byzantine Imperium

Post by Magister Militum »

Heretic wrote:Just so you know, and don't take this offensively, but in the past(?) we had a member who kept making the same world-building premise over and over and over again. It would either be something with the Byzantium, the Kaiser's Reich or anything with GERMANIANS!, and it would usually include Warhammer 40k and/or Lovecraft. Sometimes those things would mash. The shenanigans and stuff continued for a long time (this individual got better and is actually working on some pretty neat stuff) to the point we roll our eyes when the words 'Byzantine', 'Columbia' (America's old 1900-1910 incarnate), 'Kaiser/Reich' or 'Warhammer 40k' appear. Just saying that so you get the jist of it if some people appear skeptical or non-responding.
That's not really an issue for him, though. In That Case, it was because He wouldn't shut up about it and flooded the board with essentially the same German motif over and over and over and over again. Fingolfin should have nothing to worry about.
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Re: Byzantine Imperium

Post by Heretic »

Maybe it was just me. Seeing KAISER LUDWIG VON LUDWIG over and over probably rustled my jimmies a bit much (Man, I like that phrase. "That really rustled my jimmies."). But yeah, for a while our local shenanigan didn't learn. Then he matured.
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Fingolfin
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Re: Byzantine Imperium

Post by Fingolfin »

I think we ran into that buffoon on SDN before. No, this is based off what I wrote about for the SDNW2/4 game and Siege, Shroom and Shady are rather familiar with it.

We did plenty of shennagians, and really did lots of stuff to rub into some idiots' faces. :lol:

Here's a preamble history: http://worldsofsdn.wikia.com/wiki/Histo ... e_Imperium. But I plan to go on and flesh out chunks of it.
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Ford Prefect
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Re: Byzantine Imperium

Post by Ford Prefect »

To what extent do you intend to divorce this particularly from the SDNW4 context, and the Warhammer 40,000 context. While I think I've sort of moved on from the existing or historical nation transposed into space motif, there's a lot of neat imagery involved in the fall of Byzantium, the rise of the Ottomans, the desperate clutches for power etc.
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Re: Byzantine Imperium

Post by Fingolfin »

Ford Prefect wrote:To what extent do you intend to divorce this particularly from the SDNW4 context, and the Warhammer 40,000 context. While I think I've sort of moved on from the existing or historical nation transposed into space motif, there's a lot of neat imagery involved in the fall of Byzantium, the rise of the Ottomans, the desperate clutches for power etc.
I intend to keep it within the SDNW4 context for the most part. One point to note is that the world as we know it isn't exactly Earth but rather one of two "Earths". This "Earth" is based off from SDNW2. SO I might be rather liberal on the historical affairs. (like Byzantium survived the Siege of Constantinople 1453, and the Ottoman Empire fell to civil war, allowing a resurgent Byzantium to retake chunks of its territory over the course of a hundred years).

So yes, there is a multi century long history to write up on, and something I never got around to do with full detail because of time, and the bickering that has more or less sunk SDNW4.
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Re: Byzantine Imperium

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

I think you can do better than following the setup of SDNW man. Like if Siege and I ever get the Sovereignty and the Brags back up, it's not really gonna retain much from SDNW aside from the stuff we've developed that can stand independently of it. Though the Sovs and the Brags have the advantage of being developed half a decade before SDNW was first conceived.
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Re: Byzantine Imperium

Post by Siege »

Yeah, I also think it's a better idea to develop it as its own independent thing, divorced from any potential baggage that comes along with its origin setting.
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Re: Byzantine Imperium

Post by speaker-to-trolls »

Uh, hi, welcome to the board!

I have a question and a personal opinion, which I don't expect to change your mind particularly because we don't really know one another, BUT, my reading of your history page leaves me with the impression that the start of the Tau war is... a little one sided. You basically have the Tau, out of nowhere, declaring the Imperials persona non grata then trying to conquer them and commiting horrible atrocities without provocation, it all seems like it's set up to give the Imperium the perfect excuse for becoming the lovable gothic psychopaths we expect them to be.

So, my question is, basically, have I missed something and are you thinking of changing the details of the history in any significant way, or is this really kind of integral to your idea?

Oh, also, though I've never played SDNW4, only lurked and read it for my own amusement, I agree with Shroom and Siege's sentiments that it has a lot of baggage you might not want.
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Re: Byzantine Imperium

Post by Fingolfin »

speaker-to-trolls wrote:Uh, hi, welcome to the board!

I have a question and a personal opinion, which I don't expect to change your mind particularly because we don't really know one another, BUT, my reading of your history page leaves me with the impression that the start of the Tau war is... a little one sided. You basically have the Tau, out of nowhere, declaring the Imperials persona non grata then trying to conquer them and commiting horrible atrocities without provocation, it all seems like it's set up to give the Imperium the perfect excuse for becoming the lovable gothic psychopaths we expect them to be.

So, my question is, basically, have I missed something and are you thinking of changing the details of the history in any significant way, or is this really kind of integral to your idea?

Oh, also, though I've never played SDNW4, only lurked and read it for my own amusement, I agree with Shroom and Siege's sentiments that it has a lot of baggage you might not want.
Well, technically, there was some build up before the Tau finally launched their invasion. And yes, it was an excuse so that I could play the bastard in the game.

This is only a template, and I intend to delve a bit more. Yes there is some baggage I will to be rid off, but I would have to look into how to write up Byzantium during the 20th century. I think there's a lot to write about there first before I go onto the future era.
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Fingolfin
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Re: Byzantine Imperium

Post by Fingolfin »

Siege wrote:Yeah, I also think it's a better idea to develop it as its own independent thing, divorced from any potential baggage that comes along with its origin setting.
I don't plan to have wholesale copy of everything man. It's just that I need some form of a setting where there's antagonism etc. to set things up a little.
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Re: Byzantine Imperium

Post by Siege »

Fingolfin wrote:I think there's a lot to write about there first before I go onto the future era.
Alternatively you could do it the other way around: start with the 'current' future Byzantine Empire In Space, and then work your way backwards in time. In my experience that usually is easier than starting from some point in the past and working your way into the future, because there's a lot of history to cover.
I don't plan to have wholesale copy of everything man. It's just that I need some form of a setting where there's antagonism etc. to set things up a little.
Yeah, I figured as much. I'd suggest swapping out the Tau for an alien race of your own making, 'cause I rather fancy Ford's suggestion to more closely mirror the historical ERE, except in space, with the aliens standing in for the Space Ottomans. You can then have, say, general so-and-so-ios snatch victory from the jaws of defeat by thwarting the conquest of Terra, deposing the weak emperor and his clique of corrupt advisors, and launch a crusade to reconquer the lost lands of Byzantium where humans now toil under the yoke of the alien. But as he's out conquering stuff he still has to watch out that rival generals and the remnants of the old order don't stab him in the back, etc.

That way it could include allusions to 40K with the conquests and alien threat and such, but at the same time it'd be rather more fresh. Toss in the Patriarch of Space and conniving Space Venetians... Could be alot of fun. Anyway, that's all just me rambling. Looking forward to seeing where you'll take it.
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Re: Byzantine Imperium

Post by Fingolfin »

Siege wrote:
Fingolfin wrote:I think there's a lot to write about there first before I go onto the future era.
Alternatively you could do it the other way around: start with the 'current' future Byzantine Empire In Space, and then work your way backwards in time. In my experience that usually is easier than starting from some point in the past and working your way into the future, because there's a lot of history to cover.
I don't plan to have wholesale copy of everything man. It's just that I need some form of a setting where there's antagonism etc. to set things up a little.
Yeah, I figured as much. I'd suggest swapping out the Tau for an alien race of your own making, 'cause I rather fancy Ford's suggestion to more closely mirror the historical ERE, except in space, with the aliens standing in for the Space Ottomans. You can then have, say, general so-and-so-ios snatch victory from the jaws of defeat by thwarting the conquest of Terra, deposing the weak emperor and his clique of corrupt advisors, and launch a crusade to reconquer the lost lands of Byzantium where humans now toil under the yoke of the alien. But as he's out conquering stuff he still has to watch out that rival generals and the remnants of the old order don't stab him in the back, etc.

That way it could include allusions to 40K with the conquests and alien threat and such, but at the same time it'd be rather more fresh. Toss in the Patriarch of Space and conniving Space Venetians... Could be alot of fun. Anyway, that's all just me rambling. Looking forward to seeing where you'll take it.
A good few points.

Actually I am more inclined for alien Sassanids rather than Ottomans. In fact, it will fit with your notion of a weak ERE due to poor leadership. Now as for how to figure the rest of it out I have to think about it. What kind of xenos I'd need, that is something I have think about. A space xeno based off some variant of the Eldar minus some of the advanced tech? Or the Tau? Or heaven forbid, a Bragulan type xeno. :lol:
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Re: Byzantine Imperium

Post by Siege »

I'd try and find a setup for your aliens that makes them a reflection of the Byzantines themselves, or what they could become. Personally I prefer it when the aliens aren't omnicidal maniac conquerors but have rather more practical motivations, can be reasoned with, etc. So for example if you're going with a Sassanid analog, you could have a driving force behind their conquests by their Shahanshah... But the actual generals leading the armies are petty rulers, warlords and princes of the blood and so forth who constantly squabble amongst themselves for spoils of war, honor and prestige.

So now you'd have an apparent wave of alien onslaught heading for Terra... But actually that seemingly unbeatable army might be just as unstable as the Byzantine Empire itself. General so-and-so-ios might try and form a truce with one of the alien princes, someone who stands to gain if his chief rival suffers a humiliating defeat before the mighty walls of Terra. Now hopefully our protagonist general can get a line of credit from Space Venice to rally and outfit his armies before they inevitably try again!
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Re: Byzantine Imperium

Post by Fingolfin »

So I will do a trial write up of the xeno race. (This post will be subjected to lots of updating.)

Race Profile: Carsainos

Physical traits
The Carsainos are dark green bipedal humanoids possessing great physical strength and height. They may appear scrawny and thin but looks are deceiving; they could easily rip a human arm off with relative ease. They are relatively hairless, and they do not possess a nose; rather they breathe through two slits on their face. They are relatively long lived but like humans, without longetivity treatments and genetic engineering, the would not live beyond 150 years.

Culture and Religion
They are martial race. Many of their young are subjected to the harshest military training possible and thus produce some of the finest soldiers in the galaxy. They are a very cohesive and a close knit race, quite unlike humans. They are fairly loyal to their respective lords and are not known to question them.

Religion wise, the state religion is the Panthenon; they worship a pathenon of Gods, not too dissimilar to the religions of ancient Rome and Greece. Their leader, the Carsai, is regarded as a mouthpiece of the Gods and Carsainos make religious offerings to the Carsai in hope that the Carsai would intercede for them on their behalf and ensure they have the favour of the Gods.

Economy
Generally self-sufficient, they operate a fairly wide trade network, and often compete against rival human empires for trade. Many major trade routes run through the Carsaino Empire. They have a fairly well industrialised economy, and comparable to most human empires in terms of technology. Their economic structure is that of a planned economy; the state controls most industries and the economy enriches the state directly and the state dispenses wealth to its citizens as it so sees fit.

Government
The Carsainos race is ruled by the Carsai. The current Carsai is Carsai Severino II. Their political structure is highly feudal, and governors are fiefdoms ruled by a Duke or Duchess.
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