The Solidarity Wars reboot

For 'verse proposals, random ideas, musings, and brainwaves.

Moderators: Invictus, speaker-to-trolls

User avatar
Artemis
Global Mod
Posts: 392
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 3:31 am
Location: Savannah, Georgia
Contact:

The Solidarity Wars reboot

Post by Artemis »

So, I saw a lot of people interested in the idea over in yon thread, so I want to set this up as a brainstorming forum for us to come up with a new setting.

A few things I think we should keep is the idea that everyone gets a race of their own (or more, of course - maybe we could all do a race per faction?), and the basic idea of two (or more) major power blocs facing off against one another in a cold war gone hot very recently. I'd like to stay at more or less the same tech level we had before, but I'm also open to that changing. I agree with Siege that we might want to have a smaller scale than we did for the original TSW - rather than a whole galaxy, what about a thirty-or-forty star system cluster.

Another idea I'm kinda bouncing around is the idea that there be no humans in this version - that, I think, might have been a big part of why no one wanted to side with C-WEB, and why a lot of their races ended up being evil expansionists (though I had planned to 'humanize' the Dreynar a bit). So, what if we just have our own races facing off?
"The universe's most essential beauty is its endlessness. There is room and resources enough for all of us. Whether there is room for all of our passions is the question, and the problem that we work tirelessly to find a solution to."

-Qhameio Allir Nlafahn, Commonwealth ambassador, during the signing of the Kriolon Treaty.
User avatar
Malchus
Posts: 1257
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 7:05 am
Location: In a chibi-land, eating the brains of H. P. Wuvcwaft.
Contact:

Re: The Solidarity Wars reboot

Post by Malchus »

Oh, wow, you already put it up. I guess I have an answer to my question in the other thread.

While I like the idea of a smaller scale and of there being no humans at all, I think we should keep the tense cold war back story of the original rather than having things go hot. I liked the whole political angle to the original, and I think it'd be lots of fun to see our races maneuver with or against each other.

Are we gonna keep the whole grav-eddy thing as the primary method for FTL? If so, then maybe controlling those grav-eddies are a big part of the whole setting's politics. Power blocs could claim control over certain grav-eddies and position fleets around them, and said controlling powers could set terms of use for unaligned races or even other blocs who would use them for trade, exploration, or whatever.
Image
I admire the man, he has a high tolerance for insanity (and inanity - which he generously contributed!). ~Shroom, on my wierdness tolerance.
User avatar
speaker-to-trolls
Posts: 766
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 12:34 am
Location: The World of Men

Re: The Solidarity Wars reboot

Post by speaker-to-trolls »

At the risk of seeming overly conservative I would urge against leaving out humans altogether, I tend to think that humans are at the least useful as a familiar viewpoint to look at aliens through. Again, I may sound conservative, even boring in saying this, but without some kind of reference point it seems it'd be easy to get lost in the bizarreness as O'eMa!! of the Y'u''k!a muses on the U!le of N'ooo!ch! (! represents a 2-tongue click, which sounds a bit like a glottal pop if your tonsils were attached to a pair of maracas). I shuold point out, though, that I don't think humans need to necessarily be the Leaders of the Free Universe, as they were in the original. Hell, Earth could be a poor neutral party split between Corist South Terra and Haloist North Terra, or something.
Just a thought.
Malchus wrote:Are we gonna keep the whole grav-eddy thing as the primary method for FTL? If so, then maybe controlling those grav-eddies are a big part of the whole setting's politics. Power blocs could claim control over certain grav-eddies and position fleets around them, and said controlling powers could set terms of use for unaligned races or even other blocs who would use them for trade, exploration, or whatever.
I always assumed graveddies were basically the cause of the whole conflict, without them then there is surely enough room in the universe for everyone to get along and stay well out of each others way, especially since even the Mighty Dreynar only had a few dozen stars to call their own with their empire included. If there are only a few chokepoints where one can travel between one star and the next then controlling them becomes vital and hence once the last mapped transit points start leading to places which other people have an interest in then there will be issues.
"Little monuments may be completed by their first architects, but great ones; true ones leave their copestones to posterity. God keep me from completing anything."
User avatar
Booted Vulture
Posts: 965
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:33 pm

Re: The Solidarity Wars reboot

Post by Booted Vulture »

For those of us who didn't take part in the first edition of TSW but might like to take part in a reboot, i.e. Me. Could someone put up an explanation of the basic concepts and background there of?

I'm assuming from the title that there are two big aliiances slugging it out with each other. Akin to the World Wars, they might not be doing so for any particular reasons of their own, except that their allies have been attack and thus they are honour bound to help them out and hence show 'Solidarity' with their compatriots?
Ah Brother! It's been too long!
Mobius 1
Global Mod
Posts: 1099
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 11:40 pm
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: The Solidarity Wars reboot

Post by Mobius 1 »

If nothing else, if one wants to keep it from 'everybody teams up with the humans', put the humans on both sides. It's fairly ridiculous to have power blocs and antions decided by straight species lines, as opposed to unified cultures, political ideas, or causes.
SHADOW TEMPEST BLACK || STB2: MIDNIGHT PARADOX
The day our skys fe||, the heavens split to create new skies.
User avatar
Shroom Man 777
Global Mod
Posts: 4637
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 7:09 pm
Contact:

Re: The Solidarity Wars reboot

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

I have no idea what this TSW is all about.

If you want humans on all sides, then maybe humanity has lost Earth itself and has become something like the state of humankind in Titan A.E.

But instead of being refugee shitpieces, we've become goddamn badass Hessian mercenaries and big-nosed gold-stealing Jew bankers. Or something.

We become a widely-circulating underclass in the galaxy. Like a whole bunch of Arthur Dents in a big and bad 'verse full of shitpieces. With us being the small shitpieces in a galaxy full of turds.
Image

"Sometimes Shroomy I wonder if your imagination actually counts as some sort of war crime." - FROD
User avatar
Siege
Site Admin
Posts: 2563
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 7:03 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: The Solidarity Wars reboot

Post by Siege »

I just want to say that I'm totally up for this. It'll be great fun to get back into the old-school sci-fi worldbuilding scene.
"Nick Fury. Old-school cold warrior. The original black ops hardcase. Long before I stepped off a C-130 at Da Nang, Fury and his team had set fire to half of Asia." - Frank Castle

For, now De Ruyter's topsails
Off naked Chatham show,
We dare not meet him with our fleet -
And this the Dutchmen know!
User avatar
Heretic
Posts: 1750
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 4:45 pm
Location: IN AMERICA

Re: The Solidarity Wars reboot

Post by Heretic »

I would like to join while waiting for Resevoir to start the idea we were forming.

Same here, need a brief description.

I agree, humans don't have to be the center of attention.

Damn it, I'm speaking in single sentences again!
Computers are like Old Testament gods; lots of rules and no mercy.
-Joseph Campbell
User avatar
speaker-to-trolls
Posts: 766
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 12:34 am
Location: The World of Men

Re: The Solidarity Wars reboot

Post by speaker-to-trolls »

If nothing else, if one wants to keep it from 'everybody teams up with the humans', put the humans on both sides. It's fairly ridiculous to have power blocs and antions decided by straight species lines, as opposed to unified cultures, political ideas, or causes.
That depends on specifics, of course. If your species is still in the bronze age when a dreynar fleet admiral touches down on your planet then you're pretty much all part of their alliance from then on in. Afterall, if you are not an ally of the King, comrade, why are the Kings ships in orbit of your world?
No reason that has to happen to humans, obviously, but cartography would play a major role in whose side one picks.

Sorry, I'm nitpicking the hell out of this thread. I'll stop that now.

Can I describe the Solidarity Wars to those not in the know, or should we leave that to Artemis, he being the creator.
"Little monuments may be completed by their first architects, but great ones; true ones leave their copestones to posterity. God keep me from completing anything."
Mobius 1
Global Mod
Posts: 1099
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 11:40 pm
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: The Solidarity Wars reboot

Post by Mobius 1 »

No, no. It's all right. Obviously, as in the original TSW, if you get taken along for the ride you don't have a choice. I was attacking the general sci-fi brainbug that exists among more "settled' settings where most of the species are of the same tech level.

My point is that, the facilitate both ideas (the 'hey guess what you're on our side get over it' idea and the 'all humans/species here are not all the same' thought), we should perhaps move the timeline along a bit so we can a bit more creative in our reasoning for factions beyond 'they're right next to each other' and 'they're all bad guys/good guys' (Tarkins - or whatever you are - I'm looking at you).
SHADOW TEMPEST BLACK || STB2: MIDNIGHT PARADOX
The day our skys fe||, the heavens split to create new skies.
User avatar
Artemis
Global Mod
Posts: 392
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 3:31 am
Location: Savannah, Georgia
Contact:

Re: The Solidarity Wars reboot

Post by Artemis »

The basic idea behind TSW, for those asking, is that there are at least two major power blocs fighting over control of spatial phenomena called gravitic eddies, or graveddies, basically pinpricks in three-dimensional space that allow for FtL travel (basically, they're wormholes, but I didn't want to use the term). In the old setting the two factions where the Orion Arm Treaty Alliance (OATA) and the Core World Ecopolitical Bloc (C-WEB).

It sounds like everyone's interested in keeping the Dreynar as the head of one of the factions, which I agree with.

I also like the idea of keeping the conflict at a cold war that threatens to boil over, maybe have a few Vietnam-like brushfire wars going to keep things interesting - and as an excuse to write the ever-necessary space battle snapshots ;)

I'm also alright with the idea of the humans being junior members in one of the factions - I kinda like Shroomz' idea of humanity being drafted into the conflict by other races - what if this has happened in the very near future, and humanity is going through a period of extremely rapid technological upgrading thanks to their new allies getting them geared up for the coming war? Or, perhaps we're being courted by more than one faction, and we'll be forced to make a choice at some point?
"The universe's most essential beauty is its endlessness. There is room and resources enough for all of us. Whether there is room for all of our passions is the question, and the problem that we work tirelessly to find a solution to."

-Qhameio Allir Nlafahn, Commonwealth ambassador, during the signing of the Kriolon Treaty.
User avatar
Magister Militum
Posts: 921
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 8:01 pm
Location: California

Re: The Solidarity Wars reboot

Post by Magister Militum »

As I hinted on the other thread, I'll throw my backing into brining back TSW.

As for the current dilemma regarding humans in both blocs, it's really only a matter of having multiple human polities with differing strategic interests and political viewpoints. The notion that Human polity A is going to ally with Human polity B solely on the factor that they are of the same race is absurd and, frankly, insulting to my intelligence. A Human polity is going to carefully examine their astropolitical situation and placement in the interstellar arena before deciding on which bloc will most benefit them in terms of their strategic situation and relations with other nations. The human diaspora that would stem from Sol would include many individuals with their own viewpoints, which translates into a number of colonial polities that would have varying relations with one another, as well as the mother polity centered around Earth. As such, it would be expected that they would end up on different sides.
Democratic Socialist | Atheist | Transhumanist | Bright Green Environmentalist | Worldbuilder | IT Professional |


Germania your game is through, now you're gonna answer to... The Freestates! Fuck Yeah! Now lick my balls and suck on my cock! Freestates, Fuck Yeah! Coming in to save the motherfuckin' day! Rock and roll, fuck yeah! Television, fuck yeah! DVDs, fuck yeah! Militums, fuck yeah! - Shroomy
User avatar
Booted Vulture
Posts: 965
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:33 pm

Re: The Solidarity Wars reboot

Post by Booted Vulture »

If we do have multiple human factions. I'd like to avoid them being divided along current national lines. As good as things like Old Familiars or The Eternal Game are, the human factions really ought to be divided by other means than one particular patch of rock they used to live on.

What are the general outlooks of the two power blocks, and what might they be fighting over?
Ah Brother! It's been too long!
User avatar
Invictus
Posts: 1306
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 11:44 pm

Re: The Solidarity Wars reboot

Post by Invictus »

I'd entrust deciding the makeup of the human polities to their creators. I'm sure the people here can come up with creative demographics, as well as with the alien polities. Although given the FTL limitations that graveddies produce within the setting, I think it could be difficult to justify starfaring species spreading out far enough to form their distinct cultures and nations.

What about this - the galaxy wasn't always in a cold war. Star travel was considerably freer and less controlled than in the past, so different species generally settled where they liked and were left to work out their differences on their own. But then for whatever reason two big military alliances started coalescing, and both sides began to secure and fortify the graveddies under their control, leaving lots of polities trapped on one side or another. This would probably need us to advance the timeline by a few centuries compared to the original, but I don't mind that.

As for the two blocs, I have this idea that one represents freedom and the other security. The OATA (or its successor equivalent) is democratic and fractious, generally laissez-faire in its internal policies and held together by the charisma of relatively ineffectual Elder Races. It's perfectly possible for a member to be left to the dogs if the High Council doesn't like you enough. On the other hand, the C-WEB equivalent has an interventionist leadership that aggressively recruits new members but take their obligations to protect and aid them seriously, even if they can't be kept.
"This explanation posits that external observation leads to the collapse of the quantum wave function. This is another expression of reactionary idealism, and it's indeed the most brazen expression."
-
REBUILD OF COMIX STAGE 1 - Rey Quirino Versus the Dark Heart of the Philippines
"...a literary atrocity against the senses..." - Ford

REBUILD OF COMIX STAGE 2 - Advent Rey Returns: REVERGELTUNG
Coming NEVER
User avatar
Artemis
Global Mod
Posts: 392
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 3:31 am
Location: Savannah, Georgia
Contact:

Re: The Solidarity Wars reboot

Post by Artemis »

If we do this with the humans, let's make a point to have the other races just as divided - no reason human have to be the only individualistic, multi-cultural race in the galaxy.

Working out the history as to how the Solidarity Wars started would be one of the more interesting aspects, I think. Speaking of that name, what about naming one of the factions the Solidarity (maybe the Outer Arm Solidarity or something like that) so the name continues to make sense?
"The universe's most essential beauty is its endlessness. There is room and resources enough for all of us. Whether there is room for all of our passions is the question, and the problem that we work tirelessly to find a solution to."

-Qhameio Allir Nlafahn, Commonwealth ambassador, during the signing of the Kriolon Treaty.
User avatar
Invictus
Posts: 1306
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 11:44 pm

Re: The Solidarity Wars reboot

Post by Invictus »

Artemis wrote:If we do this with the humans, let's make a point to have the other races just as divided - no reason human have to be the only individualistic, multi-cultural race in the galaxy.

Working out the history as to how the Solidarity Wars started would be one of the more interesting aspects, I think. Speaking of that name, what about naming one of the factions the Solidarity (maybe the Outer Arm Solidarity or something like that) so the name continues to make sense?
Multi-species polities too. I mean, my god, how often do we see this?

The Outer Arm Solidarity sounds good - it's not as if aliens use the name "Orion Arm" anyway. Who gets to lead it this time?

EDIT: What about the C-WEB? I have an idea that it would be led by a Machine-Polity that primarily exists as an administrative bureaucracy for the other members, but it might be too big of a departure.
"This explanation posits that external observation leads to the collapse of the quantum wave function. This is another expression of reactionary idealism, and it's indeed the most brazen expression."
-
REBUILD OF COMIX STAGE 1 - Rey Quirino Versus the Dark Heart of the Philippines
"...a literary atrocity against the senses..." - Ford

REBUILD OF COMIX STAGE 2 - Advent Rey Returns: REVERGELTUNG
Coming NEVER
Mobius 1
Global Mod
Posts: 1099
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 11:40 pm
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: The Solidarity Wars reboot

Post by Mobius 1 »

No, actually, a Machine Polity is awesome.

I'm also quite curious to see what tech-level we're choosing, and how 'hard' the verse is. I quite liked the way the very worked out last time- it wasn't anywhere near overpowered. (And it had starfighters. As long as there are fighters, you know I'm happy.)

I actually like Vic's revision of C-WEB, it's less 'we're kinda the villains, just to let you know', and a lot more understandable. After all, isn't that what we're aiming for? We don't exactly want cardboard cutouts for races or polities.
SHADOW TEMPEST BLACK || STB2: MIDNIGHT PARADOX
The day our skys fe||, the heavens split to create new skies.
User avatar
Siege
Site Admin
Posts: 2563
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 7:03 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: The Solidarity Wars reboot

Post by Siege »

I gotta admit, I've been working (on an on-again/off-again basis) on a setting that's basically "the Pacific Theater in SPACE", and if we're settling with a 'human diaspora' idea it would blend perfectly with this setting. Instead of island hopping it's got moon hopping, and the whole shebang would be fought mostly with Torchships and burly marines the like, so if you want Vietnam style brushfires, I'm your man!
"Nick Fury. Old-school cold warrior. The original black ops hardcase. Long before I stepped off a C-130 at Da Nang, Fury and his team had set fire to half of Asia." - Frank Castle

For, now De Ruyter's topsails
Off naked Chatham show,
We dare not meet him with our fleet -
And this the Dutchmen know!
Blackwing
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:05 am

Re: The Solidarity Wars reboot

Post by Blackwing »

Well count me in on this.

I've got a number of alien species which I thought didn't fit the theme of Loaded Dice, but that I certainly considered cool enough to use for something.
So Einstein was wrong when he said "God does not play dice". Consideration of black holes suggests, not only that God does play dice, but that He sometimes confuses us by throwing them where they can't be seen. ~ Stephen Hawking
User avatar
Malchus
Posts: 1257
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 7:05 am
Location: In a chibi-land, eating the brains of H. P. Wuvcwaft.
Contact:

Re: The Solidarity Wars reboot

Post by Malchus »

I'm all for humans and other races having multiple cultures and political entities. It's a very intriguing and uncommon idea. I tried to do so with other races I made in past universe, and I could easily adapt those for this setting.

Vic's proposal of the progressive militarization of the graveddies is also good. It's an interesting and plausible start to how the factions ended up in the cold war. Also, the polities that find themselves isolated by the newly-fortified graveddies would find themselves being forced to side with one faction or another.

An idea, though. Perhaps we shouldn't just have two big power blocs facing off. Space being big, there will probably be several smaller power blocs aligned to neither who'll also be jostling politically or militarily to prevent themselves from being bullied into either or the blocs. Another possibility is that such smaller factions may play both sides, and try to secure graveddy usage from both while not really committing to anything.
Image
I admire the man, he has a high tolerance for insanity (and inanity - which he generously contributed!). ~Shroom, on my wierdness tolerance.
User avatar
Artemis
Global Mod
Posts: 392
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 3:31 am
Location: Savannah, Georgia
Contact:

Re: The Solidarity Wars reboot

Post by Artemis »

YES. A hearty agreement from me.
"The universe's most essential beauty is its endlessness. There is room and resources enough for all of us. Whether there is room for all of our passions is the question, and the problem that we work tirelessly to find a solution to."

-Qhameio Allir Nlafahn, Commonwealth ambassador, during the signing of the Kriolon Treaty.
User avatar
Heretic
Posts: 1750
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 4:45 pm
Location: IN AMERICA

Re: The Solidarity Wars reboot

Post by Heretic »

Can we have some races and polities on different sides? Like let's say a lizard race on C-Web, while a kangeroo race joining OATA?
Computers are like Old Testament gods; lots of rules and no mercy.
-Joseph Campbell
User avatar
Malchus
Posts: 1257
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 7:05 am
Location: In a chibi-land, eating the brains of H. P. Wuvcwaft.
Contact:

Re: The Solidarity Wars reboot

Post by Malchus »

Heretic wrote:Can we have some races and polities on different sides? Like let's say a lizard race on C-Web, while a kangeroo race joining OATA?
I don't see why not, seeing as how quite a few of the members in the original TSW also had multiple races.
Image
I admire the man, he has a high tolerance for insanity (and inanity - which he generously contributed!). ~Shroom, on my wierdness tolerance.
User avatar
Invictus
Posts: 1306
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 11:44 pm

Re: The Solidarity Wars reboot

Post by Invictus »

Heretic wrote:Can we have some races and polities on different sides? Like let's say a lizard race on C-Web, while a kangeroo race joining OATA?
That was precisely what the last version was like, and precisely what we want this iteration to avoid.

Well, you have a point there. Multi-species coexistence is going to be limited by fundamentally different habitat requirements, and geographically some species might not have spread far enough to end up in both blocs. Politically though, there is no reason for species to be monolithic.

EDIT: Ah, I understand your question now. Never mind.
"This explanation posits that external observation leads to the collapse of the quantum wave function. This is another expression of reactionary idealism, and it's indeed the most brazen expression."
-
REBUILD OF COMIX STAGE 1 - Rey Quirino Versus the Dark Heart of the Philippines
"...a literary atrocity against the senses..." - Ford

REBUILD OF COMIX STAGE 2 - Advent Rey Returns: REVERGELTUNG
Coming NEVER
User avatar
Czernobog
Posts: 1315
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 9:27 am
Location: Holy Terra

Re: The Solidarity Wars reboot

Post by Czernobog »

Can we create more than one polity?

Because I have two ideas bouncing round my head right now, and I wouldn't like to be only able to realise one.
You have ruled this galaxy for ten thousand years.
You have little of account to show for your efforts.
Order. Unity. Obedience.
We taught the galaxy these things.

And we shall do so again.
Post Reply