Time Cruising

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Acatalepsy
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Time Cruising

Post by Acatalepsy »

Hello, all, I'm Acatalepsy (previously Darth Smiley) and I'm here to make you an offer you can't refuse.

Ok, not really. I just like world building, and occasionally have time to write down some of my better ideas (for a given value of "better"). Where better than here to post some of those? Hopefully I'll find some constructive criticism and hopefully brighten someone's day, or at least give them a wtf-induced headache.

If you all remember way back when I did post the aborted idea for a universe, the Continuity Wars. I ended up neglecting that 'verse, simply because how I was constructing it and a lack of clear focus led to the rules of chronophysics I had written make the sorts of events and entities I wanted to be impossible to coexist with each other.

Still, it's been bouncing around in my head since forever and I'm going to have another shot at it. I've been reading some of the classic time travel stuff and browsing the time travel tropes at TVtropes to see what others have come up with, and see what I might be able to make work in my own setting. I'd like to outline my goals for the 'verse here, and hopefully get some advice on how to avoid the conflicts that destroyed my previous attempts. Any requests or thoughts on cool things can go here as well; I am talking about a setting that spans more than one plane of existence and chances are that if it didn't happen on Earth, it could have/will/going to happen somewhere else.

First, a basic description. The Continuity Wars is a setting where time travel is possible, and on a grand scale. As with all great technologies, this power ends up getting used for conflict, within timelines, between timelines, and between universes. The past can be changed, and if you don't want your opponents to change it you better change it first. The exact people, places and things are somewhat irrelevant - only a few actors are powerful enough to ensure their continuing retroactive existence, and even they have to be very cautious about what they do. Instead, the main thing described are is the set of rules, consequences of actions, and examples of the types of things that recur over and over (or occur just once, an infinite number of times). My goals and ground principles of the setting are:
  1. The universe has rules, and those rules are consistent, thought not necessarily simple. This means that there is no Timey Wimey Ball or Swirly Energy Thingy whose Polarity Needs to Be Reversed.
  2. You can make a difference. That difference may be to get your entire civilization erased, but it is a difference. Basically, there is no infinite set of worlds where every possible situation does happen - otherwise what's the point in trying to change any of it?
  3. The universe is materialistic, and sentient beings are collections of matter that are not exempt from any of the rules. This means that drones are almost always a good idea, there is no such things as Ripple Effect Proof Memory, and all of the issues dealing with stuff moving around in space need to be solved. It also means that none of the nonsense about past and future selves not meeting needs to be observed unless the time traveller's past self is critical to the mission somehow.
  4. This universe is filled with GrimDark; not necessarily because the individual universes are shitty (most aren't, actually), but because the nature of the universe is such that civilizations can and are frequently erased and there is little anyone can do to stop it. This, incidently, is the reason for the titular Continuity War. Even explicitly peaceful, diplomatic attempts at contact between timelines and universes may invoke a deadly butterfly effect that someone in the future may feel it is necessary to stop. If, for example, you decided open up relations with they guys from the next timeline over - odds are that will change something three hundred years down the road and the people there have a strong incentive to stop you, by any means necessary.
  5. Things are explored to the n-th order. It's not just one or two time travel devices that exists, there is a whole mess of them. You can't count on your opponents being surprised by time travel - and they can't count on you being surprised about them not being surprised. Since the playing field is even, we see a (relative) equilibrium, with all of the tactics, procedures, culture, and attitude that bring over adding an otherwise normal person to a time travel situation.
My initial attempt at constructing time travel rules had two main innovations that I'm no longer certain fit with my goals. My first innovation was the "Smoothing Over" principle, that a time travel attempt could affect things that happened before the time traveler arrives - ie, that shooting Washington crossing the Delaware could affect whether Columbus discovers America.This was problematic because one then had to address the issue of "transitory" timelines and what happened to the time traveler in the final timeline. It also denied me the ability to create some of the more conventional time travel situations by effectively removing direct causality from the equation. The second innovation was the concept of metatime, or a second set of time that allowed there to be a sort of ordering of events independent of the time traveling shenanigans. This concept might be salvaged, but I run into the problem of making sure that the traveler can make a difference. If all he ever does is affect some alternate timeline, then there's really no point to any of it.

So, questions/comments/feedback/etc/so forth/so on/whathaveyous?

And yes, I did just provide a several links to TV Tropes. I didn't see any sort of policy against indiscriminate use of memetic hazards, so there you go. Enjoy having your brain melt and your time slip away.
Last edited by Acatalepsy on Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Time Cruising

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

I'm not even going to read those tvtrope things, because they are the devil. :P

Um, okay. All of what you said sounds very confusing, and I think it'll take a great feat of stuff to actually make such a radical 'verse coherent and sensible - unless you want to take a pisstake on time travel and make things absolutely ridiculous and nonsensical - because all of what you said seems very difficult and hard to grasp, and when I'm confronted with something very difficult and hard to grasp I like to reduce it to tiny bite-sized asshole bits for my feeble brains to understand and so I can be entertained by the funnies.

Too bad about the lack of timey wimey things and wibbly-wobbly stuff though. :(

But, err, yeah. All that hard to grasp stuff notwithstanding, I'd really like to see what you'd do with your seemingly unorthodox and nosebleed-hemorrhaging approach at TIME PARADOXES (SNAAAAKE!) and how you'd make it all entertaining and cool and most definitely obscene.

It reminds me of that Halloween episode where Homer's got that time traveling toaster and whenever he steps on something in the past, it affects the future in horrible ways no one can imagine.

Heidily-ho, slaverinos.

Now, in case all that smiling didn't cheer you up, there's one thing that never fails: a nice glass of warm milk, a little nap -- and a total frontal lobotomy.
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Re: Time Cruising

Post by Acatalepsy »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Um, okay. All of what you said sounds very confusing, and I think it'll take a great feat of stuff to actually make such a radical 'verse coherent and sensible - unless you want to take a pisstake on time travel and make things absolutely ridiculous and nonsensical - because all of what you said seems very difficult and hard to grasp, and when I'm confronted with something very difficult and hard to grasp I like to reduce it to tiny bite-sized asshole bits for my feeble brains to understand and so I can be entertained by the funnies.

Too bad about the lack of timey wimey things and wibbly-wobbly stuff though. :(

But, err, yeah. All that hard to grasp stuff notwithstanding, I'd really like to see what you'd do with your seemingly unorthodox and nosebleed-hemorrhaging approach at TIME PARADOXES (SNAAAAKE!) and how you'd make it all entertaining and cool and most definitely obscene.
Well, obscene is definitely the right word. To get an idea of the scale I'm talking about here, there's an at least 50% chance that the Big Bang is somebody's retroactive superweapon, that managed to crunch up the entire universe and remake it so that the weapon's users were the unqualified most probable outcome. Some of the more bizarre outcomes of mass time travel is mass time cloning - where four guys can time clone themselves until they are their own battalion. The army of this 'verse isn't kidding when they started talking about an army of one.

But aside from the scale, I do intend to play this one as straight as possible. The laws of chronophysics don't change, so every fight the breaks out as relatively predictable consequences, at least in what can happen (though what does happen is often a result of the butterfly effect). This means that while absurdities such as one man armies and retroactive technological development do exist, their use is constrained by what the other guy can do to stop it and what it means if the temporal war starts extending into your own timeline.
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Re: Time Cruising

Post by Heretic »

My brain needs ice cream now. Even the basic time traveling principles can barely get through my head, so I tend to stay away from those things. Trying to read this...in my ape mind I see a billion Doctor Whos fighting each other in every conceivable time...
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Re: Time Cruising

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Doctor Who works because it's a completely loony show and while being rather comedic, it also has rather serious and dramatic elements and blends all sorts of fictional elements into it that keeps it entertaining and interesting, with its formula staying relatively fresh rather than growing stale over time.

I fucking love Doctor Who. I've finished the four seasons and I'd love to grab some of those old serieses.
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Re: Time Cruising

Post by Blackwing »

I'm writing this from a cellphone, so I may just have missed the answer, but without a Timey-whimey ball or Ripple effect proof memory, how do you plan to get around the grandfather paradox? After all, if there's no Hitler Time Travel Exemption Law, eventually a time traveller is going to end up doing something, intentionally or otherwise, that prevents the discovery of time travel in all it's instances. This would lead inevitably to either an end to the narrative or a Stable Timeloop induced reset.
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Re: Time Cruising

Post by Acatalepsy »

First of all, preventing the discovery of time travel is harder than one might think. Just killing (or un-causing) the inventor or organization that discovers time travel isn't enough. Time travel is permitted by the laws of physics, so sooner or later someone will get around to inventing it. In order to really prevent all time travel, you'd need to render the Earth uninhabitable by any sentient life. And that wouldn't do a thing to any sort of out of universe installations.

As for the grandfather paradox...that's the hard part, now isn't it? In my original set of rules, killing your own grandfather would not cause you to not exist, because "you" were effectively information beamed in from another reality; you were outside of the consequences of that particular time. Killing your will almost certainly cause you to not exist though. The problem with the arraignment is that it violated principle 2, in that in your original timeline (which had the same meta-time coordinate as you started with) was unchanged. You could kill what amounted to an alternate universe grandfather, but not your 'real' grandfather.

Which is not what I want. So right now the options I'm playing with for my 'solution' to the grandfather paradox are:
  1. There is no paradox. Traveling through time removes you from all chains of causality, you become, in effect, an un-caused cause (and therefore god, or something like that). Thus, killing your grandfather does ensure that a future version of you never exists, but it doesn't matter to you because you effectively caused yourself to exist.

    Problems with this approach:
    • Difficult to logically prevent massive mashups, as effectively un-caused things pop into existence without any sort of reason behind them.
    • This may be solvable using meta-time, to "space out" such incursions and provide an unchangeable "causing agent" that logically causes things to exist.
  2. The paradox resolves through iteration. Eventually (for given values of eventually) the situation resolves in a stable time loop, even if the "original" timeline was significantly different.

    Problems with this approach:
    • May prevent some of the cooler concepts I want to try out, by effectively removing metatime from the equation.
    • Difficulty determining what any given observer sees during any given iteration.
I don't think it is possible to get create a situation where you have meaningful time travel and no uncaused causes, but don't particularly have a problem with that as long as the effects are manageable. After all, if I had an issue with breaking causality I shouldn't write a time travel 'verse, now should I?
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Re: Time Cruising

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Those grandfather-killing uncaused causes could act like rogue agents, and get hunted down by time cops and shit!
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Re: Time Cruising

Post by Acatalepsy »

Unlikely. Uncaused causes are not problems in and of themselves. They are more problems for temporal agents in the field, where changes to the timeline may cause (or uncause) all sorts of stuff to happen. Any sort of temporal op that goes south may very well end up as a nine way gunfight between randomly popping in agents from various timelines determined to ensure that their own timeline is the one that actually emerges. This is under interpretation one, of course. Under interpretation two, thing are a little more controlled, but I think too controlled, in that it drastically lowers the probability of interference between timelines.
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Re: Time Cruising

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

How can anyone intervene when a timeline is being interfered with, anyway? How can they detect such stuff and react within enough time before they're retconned out of existence?
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Re: Time Cruising

Post by Blackwing »

I actually did mean preventing life from existing on Earth (or simply preventing humans from existing) when I said 'something that prevents the discovery of time travel in all it's instances'.

And the problem with it (and having no Ripple Effect Proof Memory) is that if you kill your own grandfather, what does that do to your memory? Since your memory is not immune to the alterations you make and in the timeline you've created you never existed, you shouldn't not only not remember anything, but (because not having Ripple Effect Proof Memory also implies not having a Ripple Effect Proof Body) you wouldn't actually have brain functions at all...
Nor, for that matter, a body.

Eliminating humanity would also effect everything ever made by humans... Ever. Including the time traveller, his time machine, everything he had with him, anything that exists out of time if it was made by humans and is subject to causality (which it must be if no Ripple Effect Proof Memory exists) and whatever it was he used to cause humans to never exist. At which point he never did that, which means that everything proceeds exactly as it did before he did that, leading him to do it, leading to him never having done it, leading to him doing it, leading to him never having KABOOM!

Which is a bit of a problem. And coincidentally why Timey-Whimey Balls exist as part of the Time Travel tropes.
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Re: Time Cruising

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Shroom Man 777 wrote:How can anyone intervene when a timeline is being interfered with, anyway? How can they detect such stuff and react within enough time before they're retconned out of existence?
Such is the fun part of time travel. They don't. All you have to know is that there was time travel at some point in your own past that led to your present situation. They know that if they don't send someone back, then it is entirely possible that there exist alternate timelines where one side or the other got reinforcements or additional parties showed up. These hypothetical reinforcements, if they existed, would probably proceed to do something that invalidates your home timeline, effectively killing, or at least erasing, you. So you darn well better make sure that such a thing doesn't happen, by sending your own forces as well.

Of course, then you realize that this logic applies to every possible timeline created by a given temporal incursion. Everyone (and every possible version of that everyone) who realizes that time travel occurred will attempt to intervene. That's why you really want to be discreet about these sorts of things.

Now, this begs the question - what is the time limit on these things? If I exist right now, then my timeline obviously works. Sure, it may be possible that an alternate timeline exists that "overwrites it" but when is that going to happen? Why can't I just wait a few centuries for my ubertech to develop and only then go back and solve the problem? Hell, if my own timeline will exist until heat death, why do I care if some metafuture alternate timeline is different?

This is a problem that can be resolved a couple of ways. The first way I am considering is metatime, a second flow of time that we experience and is identical to time in every way - save that you can't go back in metatime. If someone changed something X years ago at Y metatime, and you are in the present at Y metatime, you only have a set amount of metatime to fix any changes before you never will have being existed. If you make it exponentially more difficult to send things backwards in time, that largely solves the problem of overkill from the future.

Another way to resolve the issue is to force all loops to be stable in some way. Given that theoretically, anything is possible with enough time and a time loop has effectively infinite time. It is possible to create a grandfather paradox, as long as you ensure that there is a way make the time loop stable, such as by picking someone else to go back again and kill your grandfather and ensuring that in future iterations the events play out the way you want to. If you don't do that, then you run the very real risk that the universe will find a way to stop you in such a way that is stable.

A final way to resolve the issue is to use something like the "time waves" concept from the incredibly awesome game Achron, where rather than allowing infinite iterations of paradoxical situation, only a few iterations are possible and it is therefore possible to determine which, if any, is the outcome. Actually, combining this approach with metatime may be the ideal final solution.
Blackwing wrote:And the problem with it (and having no Ripple Effect Proof Memory) is that if you kill your own grandfather, what does that do to your memory? Since your memory is not immune to the alterations you make and in the timeline you've created you never existed, you shouldn't not only not remember anything, but (because not having Ripple Effect Proof Memory also implies not having a Ripple Effect Proof Body) you wouldn't actually have brain functions at all...
Nor, for that matter, a body.
When I say that people don't have Ripple Effect Proof Memories, this only applies to people that didn't actually go through time. Time travelers are uncaused causes, and while their memories no longer correspond to events that actually happened, those memories remain. Everyone else though, is stuck with whatever memories of events that "actually" happened. If there is an alternate version of the time traveler, they will not share memories in any way.

Time travel is not unlimited; you can't just go back and end all life. Though, yes, it is and should be possible for a time traveler omnicidal maniac to destroy almost all life. It may even be a likely outcome of most universes.
Last edited by Acatalepsy on Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Time Cruising

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Acatalepsy wrote:Any sort of temporal op that goes south may very well end up as a nine way gunfight between randomly popping in agents from various timelines determined to ensure that their own timeline is the one that actually emerges.
There was an obscure strategy game once in development (I never found out of it was ever released) that dealt with a situation like this: party A discovers time-travel and goes back in time to change history so they come out better, but almost the instant they arrive there they are assaulted by party B, who in the original time-line were never as technologically advanced as A but through some unforeseen change ended up in possession of, you guessed it, time-travel, and decided to take out party A when they were at it. They in turn come under attack from party C, to whom pretty much the same thing happened as B, except this time it was B's temporal incursion that caused them to develop the means to travel back in time.

This sort of situation is in a way pretty hilarious, but also pretty fucking dangerous, because if the temporal agent doesn't know exactly what he's doing all kinds of people might pop out of the woodwork with rayguns and jetpacks trying to ruin his shit, each in turn spawning branching lines which would presumably drift progressively farther away from what the original actor tried to achieve. You might start with a guy going back from the 25th century to the 18th century trying to cause a minor adjustment to the present day, and end up with a Greater Victorian Indonesia lording it up over the rest of the world, or something. And if each of these returners turns into an uncaused cause and is therefore free to continue travelling forward and backward in time at will without fearing any causality violations, there's a fair chance reality would get irretrievably fucked six ways 'till sunday. Possibly the only way a civilization could survive the invention of time-travel is if they realized up-front what could happen and shifted their entire population through time somehow, rendering the lot of them instantly into causality-free actors.

Fun times, fun times. I like the possibilities here...
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Re: Time Cruising

Post by Blackwing »

Thing is, there would be little need for a narrative once the 'inhabitants' of the universe figure out the 'trick'.

If each action in the past triggers an alternate timeline (which it must, because it's not possible to have a truly uncaused cause, well... not unless the time machine is magic. Or works outside of the laws of physics. But that's the same thing), then a 'rough and ready time cop' has no reason to go after the sordid criminal who is trying to set up us the bomb. After all, the moment he succeeds in wiping out all life (for instance by nuking a large chunk of what would eventually become earth out of the accretion disk), he's just zapped himself into a new timeline... and he can now only travel back and forth between the past and future of this new timeline (He can't even stop himself, because he didn't stop himself and since he's now running on his own personal causality, it wouldn't be him he's stopping). A timeline devoid of human life. A timeline that's basically his own personal prison.

Meanwhile if the time cop WERE to follow the criminal, he'd effectively ensure he could never return home, which sucks.

So better to let Insano McGenocide do something that doesn't affect you anyway (after all, you exist, so you know 100% sure no one managed to prevent you from existing) and trap himself in boringverse for eternity for the rest of his life (technically correct).
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Re: Time Cruising

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Siege wrote:Possibly the only way a civilization could survive the invention of time-travel is if they realized up-front what could happen and shifted their entire population through time somehow, rendering the lot of them instantly into causality-free actors.

Fun times, fun times. I like the possibilities here...
Actually, that idea was something that I had already determined would need to play a huge role in the meta-future / meta-past of this setting; temporal nomads who avoid erasure by jumping around often enough that they are effectively immune to most causality changes. The also tend to initiate lots causality changes just by existing in the 'wrong' places and times, which tends to piss off the current inhabitants of the timeline. Because of their of relatively small numbers, these nomads are often in a fight for their lives against the 'current' powers of the timeline, but at least going down in a hail of railcannon fire beats never having existed at all.
Blackwing wrote:(which it must, because it's not possible to have a truly uncaused cause, well... not unless the time machine is magic. Or works outside of the laws of physics. But that's the same thing)
Time travel is magic, pretty much by definition. I don't think any current physical theory seriously considers the possibility of time travel, and more than a few very well regarded theories explicitly say "No you can't". I'm not looking for how time travel "could" work. I'm looking for some form of internal consistency, a ruleset that allows for cool time travel stories that don't rely on the inventors being the only ones in the entire history of time to have figured out how do this. That's what my five core principles are about.
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Re: Time Cruising

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Acatalepsy wrote:Because of their of relatively small numbers, these nomads are often in a fight for their lives against the 'current' powers of the timeline, but at least going down in a hail of railcannon fire beats never having existed at all.
Time gypsies! I like it. I do wonder however how branching time-lines work in this universe: let's say I go back in time and change the past, can I then travel forward into a (to me) unknown future again? And does that mean I cannot ever travel back to my 'native' future? Is there only one time-line, or are there a couple that shift and change and people can travel back and forth between them?
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Re: Time Cruising

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

How can you even identify which timeline you're in? What a headache!
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Re: Time Cruising

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Siege wrote:
Acatalepsy wrote:Because of their of relatively small numbers, these nomads are often in a fight for their lives against the 'current' powers of the timeline, but at least going down in a hail of railcannon fire beats never having existed at all.
Time gypsies! I like it. I do wonder however how branching time-lines work in this universe: let's say I go back in time and change the past, can I then travel forward into a (to me) unknown future again? And does that mean I cannot ever travel back to my 'native' future? Is there only one time-line, or are there a couple that shift and change and people can travel back and forth between them?
One of the consistent problems I run into when trying to tweak the rules are scenarios like this. If multiple timelines can permanently split from an original timeline, then time travel becomes largely pointless as going back in time doesn't allow you to change anything in your original timeline. So the way I currently have it set up, going back in time will (eventually, again for given values of eventually) overwrite the orignal timeline.

There are several different independent timelines that exist, but you can't spilt a timeline completely. They are seperate instances, more akin to separate universes than anything else.
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Re: Time Cruising

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Maybe certain futures are 'time-locked', to borrow a phrase from Doctor Who; i.e. the guys on the other end of the temporal thingmajig figured out a way to prevent themselves from being erased completely. Maybe by figuring out a way to induce the chronological equivalent of a Möbius strip? That way these guys could hide in a certain week, month or year, which perpetually loops back on itself. All of time outside the loop could be rewritten until it in no way resembles the original reality from which the loop-builders came, but that particular period would be their refuge -- an island or fortress in time, if you like, from which they can launch their own temporal incursions effectively with impunity...
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Re: Time Cruising

Post by Acatalepsy »

That, too, would be a strategy favored by the temporal nomads. Again this carries the risk of retaliation of some sort by the "everyone else" during the period of the timelock, but the risk is relatively low compared to the risk of being accidentally or deliberately non-existed.

Another factor that I'm trying to hash out is the perspective or focal point of the 'verse. There are lot of possibilities to chose from. One thing that I'm considering is presenting this universe from the perspective of 'Timeline Alpha', a timeline that diverges from our own around 1489 and in which everything goes more or less 'right' - all major wars are averted, vaccination spreading counter-viruses blunt most of the major plagues, etc. This sort of hyper-optimistic possibility sort of helps to offset the GrimDark such a verse naturally entails, and gives me the opportunity to play around with higher order consequences, such as the possibility of running hostilities between timelines, pseudotreaties on intertimeline affairs (because 'real' treaties are effectively impossible), that sort of thing.
Anything that can be done to a rat can be done to a human being. And we can do most anything to rats. This is a hard thing to think about, but it's the truth. It won't go away because we cover our eyes.

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Re: Time Cruising

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Perhaps instead of just people timelocking themselves to prevent past time-shenennigans from erasing them... how about this:

When someone alters the timeline in the past, and someone gets to intercept them, the interceptor could timelock THAT particular instance of time-alteration. So it loops into itself while the time travellers (the ones who want to alter the time, and the ones out to stop them) do battle and only when this conflict is resolved - THERE CAN ONLY BE NONE - can that loop be broken, and the victorious guys emerge... victorious!

Sorta like a temporal boxing ring or gladiator arena, to determine THE FATE OF THE UNIVERSE! :lol:

After the time-alteration, there could be neutral parties (some of those temporal nomads) who come in afterwards to try and repair the damage of the time-alterations. Like, they could have spare clones of Alexander the Great to replace the Alexanders killed by the Time Travellers, or spare Hitlers to replace those Einstein shook hands with... or space rockets designed to divert asteroids to make sure the dinosaurs do get wiped out 65 MYA. ;)
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Re: Time Cruising

Post by Acatalepsy »

Again, this is something of a misconception on how this universe needs to work. It does act like most time travel; things like time cops are almost impossible. It is possible for groups to travel to the past and utterly rewrite history and there isn't a damned thing that can be done to stop them in most cases. Only a few timelines ever get into a position to affect and protect their own timelines, and even then the smart money is on going meta if you can. This is the "GrimDark" aspect I'm talking about - any time travel at all tends to be insanely risky, and the only reason you would ever be stupid enough to actually do it was if you were convinced (correctly) that the only other option was to be erased anyway.
After the time-alteration, there could be neutral parties (some of those temporal nomads) who come in afterwards to try and repair the damage of the time-alterations. Like, they could have spare clones of Alexander the Great to replace the Alexanders killed by the Time Travellers, or spare Hitlers to replace those Einstein shook hands with... or space rockets designed to divert asteroids to make sure the dinosaurs do get wiped out 65 MYA. ;)
I think you misunderstand what I'm going for. In this universe, it is possible to travel in time, and that changes everything. Trying to keep a timeline the same is like trying to keep the entropy of a closed system the same - it's not going to work. It's just not. Hypothetically, at one point, there were (the past tense would like to apologize here) timelines like ours that weren't utterly screwed over by time travel. But by now (and the present tense would also like to apologize) all timelines that haven't already been screwed over by temporal agents are about to be (the future tense sends its condolences).

There is no Hitler Time Travel Exemption Act. If you want to kill/erase/make a successful artist of/kidnap/maim/steal the pants of/turn into a monkey/trap Adolf Hitler, go for it*.

*Odds are time travelers smarter than you have already (Past Tense: sorry!) gone back to Versailles and explained to the delegates at laser-point that they really ought to be nicer to Germany, oh and by the way there are a few economic reforms you really ought to be making. In which case you've probably just killed a random art student.**

**Odds are that time travelers smarter than these guys have infiltrated the body of major European leaders by 1912, and are in a position to make sure that the stupid Balkans ethnic shenanigans don't end up crippling European civilization for years to come.***

***Odds are that time travelers...you get the idea!
Anything that can be done to a rat can be done to a human being. And we can do most anything to rats. This is a hard thing to think about, but it's the truth. It won't go away because we cover our eyes.

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Re: Time Cruising

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Odds are, the time travelers replaced that Vienna arts student with a cybernetic Internet Super-Hitler that made the Second World War's casualties number in the billions! Just to favor their own future! But the Temporal Anti-Defamation League would've rescued all the rabbis during that era, by hiding them in time capsules scattered all over the world... frozen for one thousand years in CARBONITE!

In such a constantly-fluxing timeline, perhaps you could play these things in an obscenely hellarious kinda way. Just like that episode where Homer Simpson makes a time-traveling toaster! :lol:
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Re: Time Cruising

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One could. And certainly some of these alternate time lines would include events that would seem ironic to a viewer from this timeline (because I can't resist that sort of temptation, not all the way). But I don't want to make Dr.Who; I want to play it as GrimDark and straight as I can, because everyone else has already done 'teh wacky hiijnx lol' and 'must preserve teh timeline or ELSE hur hur'.
Anything that can be done to a rat can be done to a human being. And we can do most anything to rats. This is a hard thing to think about, but it's the truth. It won't go away because we cover our eyes.

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Re: Time Cruising

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Doctor Who is lighthearted fun. There's always room for fun that's not lighthearted, but very assholish indeed.
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