Random Ideas (Input Requested!)

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Re: Random Ideas (Input Requested!)

Post by Siege »

A couple of brief points (gotta be out the door in fifteen minutes):

* I prefer a USSR + Red China vs. USA + India combination over what you propose chiefly because it allows Taiwan, Hong Kong and Japan to be bigger potential flashpoints, thus raising the stakes and creating lots of potential for kerfuffles and shenanigans in Indonesia, the Philippines, the Spratly's, in Cambodia, and so forth. A lack of hard American cash also explains how Britain was able to give the Chinese the proverbial finger over Hong Kong in the nineties (creating another major flashpoint in the process). In my mind it just works better this way. It also explains Phoenix Squadron and such: they're essentially American mercenaries deployed to India in order to combat whatever the Sino-Soviets are throwing behind their own allies in Burma etc.

* The Soviets continue to occuppy Afghanistan as they've done since 9/11 and the subsequent invasion.

* Zhadanova went strictly isolationist and didn't really back anyone in the Middle East, but it very much bears keeping in mind that there's no Israel/Palestine split here to serve as a major divide; nations like the Kingdom of Iraq, the Kingdom of Jordan and Syria are probably a lot more stable and powerful than they are IRL. And the Saudis might not be such theocratic dicks, but I haven't given them much though yet. As a whole I like to think the Arab League is a much more developed thing in CSW (possibly as a result of the Soviets pulling their influence; possibly because the WEU showed how it was done; maybe a little of both). I'd like to see a big Arab League HQ in Damascus that acts as an overall pretty benevolent counterbalance to superpower dickery in the region (chiefly, I admit, 'cause I'm pretty sick and bored of Arab villains everywhere being screaming lunatic stereotypes).

* Turkey I see being much more of a Middle Eastern nation first and a Western one a distant second. Because, well, the WEU are kind of assholes, and they are also much more focused on north-west Africa than the Middle East. Turkey is also probably not crazy enough to want to needlessly antagonize an ascendant USSR, so they are quite content to act as a bridge between the Soviet and Western worlds; Arab oil and Russian gas lines funnel natural resources to a carbon-hungry Europe; Western freighters unload their cargo at the Bosporus, from where it is repackaged onto giant robobarges (or something) that take it further onto Sebastopol... That sort of thing. Turkey is the biggest bazaar in the world, and it quite likes that status. It might also have quit NATO (or never been a member), but that's to be determined.

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Re: Random Ideas (Input Requested!)

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Siege wrote:* I prefer a USSR + Red China vs. USA + India combination over what you propose chiefly because it allows Taiwan, Hong Kong and Japan to be bigger potential flashpoints, thus raising the stakes and creating lots of potential for kerfuffles and shenanigans in Indonesia, the Philippines, the Spratly's, in Cambodia, and so forth. A lack of hard American cash also explains how Britain was able to give the Chinese the proverbial finger over Hong Kong in the nineties (creating another major flashpoint in the process). In my mind it just works better this way. It also explains Phoenix Squadron and such: they're essentially American mercenaries deployed to India in order to combat whatever the Sino-Soviets are throwing behind their own allies in Burma etc.
Erm...

The business community in Hong Kong was already worrying about the issue at the end of thr 70s. In 1982 Thatcher already knew that Britain didn't have much of a leg to stand on at the negotiating table with Deng Xiaoping, and that Hong Kong was already an irregular remnant of its decolonization process. By 1984 there already was a formal agreement for Hong Kong's return and British plans for the handover had already begun. The PRC's 90s boom didn't have much to do with it.

It's certainly possible that the PRC's diplomatic normalization with the First World (culminating in the establishment of full diplomatic relations with the US in 1979) never took place in CSW due to various factors, so the UK (which may or may not been less decolonialist in CSW) has an ideological pretext to ignore whatever colonial-era grievances the PRC had. This would require the UK and its allies to ignore the UN though, since the PRC had a successful resolution to have Hong Kong de-listed as a colony way back in 1971 (the same year they replaced the ROC on China's permanent seat on the Security Council). Given the much-changed political landscape of CSW though, it may be possible that this initial 1971 vote was shot down and the ROC stayed on the UNSC - but it would have been a matter of time until it got through, looking at a map of the voting nations.

It's certainly possible for the fact that half of Hong Kong was on a lease that expired in 1997, and that simply returning this half per treaty was economically and demographically unfeasible, to not to matter if one were to go back to 1860 and change the relevant term on the Peking Convention, but that seems a bit gauche. Or Britain could ignore that treaty and hang on to all of Hong Kong if they thought they could get away with it, but that kinds of deprives them of their entire legitimate claim to Hong Kong, which was established by similar 19th century treaties.

It's certainly possible for Britain to somehow deter the PRC from exercising the military option, keeping in mind that Hong Kong is nothing like the Falklands and that an invading force could simply roll down from the north and cross the narrow channel with ease, something that the swift Japanese conquest in WWII borne out. In addition to that, by the late 70s Hong Kong's population had grown to the point where it was completely reliant on the PRC for food and water supplies, and everyone knew this to the point that the PRC could tank Hong Kong's economy just by making scary noises from across the border. Therefore if Britain somehow convincingly promises massively disproportionate retaliation if the PRC as much as lifted a finger and at the same time also turns the territory into Battlestar Hong Kong, while somehow has all international convention swinging in its favor, then yeah, Hong Kong would still be a British colony to this day.

P.S. And since I'm already being too critical and eyebeamy, there is obviously plenty of room for individuals to Change The World by secret deals and covert action, this being CSW. Who brokered the colony's continued colony-ness with the PRC, and for what price? Or is the PRC hesitant for SECRET FENG-SHUI reasons?
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Re: Random Ideas (Input Requested!)

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No, I get your concerns. Hong Kong still being British is one of those things that Arty and I made up in a very on-the-fly manner and I know it's going to be pretty hard to justify. I doubt a military threat to the PRC would be viable because, well let's face it, unless it's a threat along the lines of "we'll vaporize all of China if you take Hong Kong" it's not much of a threat. And even if they did dare the Chinese that way, if China and the USSR are buddies then the British nuclear arsenal cannot be spared on China to begin with, because all of it'll be needed to deter the Russkies.

So I suppose one has to wonder if it's possible the British made some sort of shady deal that allowed them to hang on to their colony. Is there something Drake-Carringdon, our version of Maggie Tatcher that is, could've offered the Chinese in the 1980s that would've potentially allowed them to extend the lease for a few decades?Possibly something massively treacherous, like maybe handing the Chinese complete maps of Indian military positions plus the keys to the Indian military comms network mere days before the outbreak of the 173th Sino-Indian Battle for the High Passes?
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Re: Random Ideas (Input Requested!)

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The headquarters of the Arab League in Damascus, ca. 1998:

Image

Image

A small city more than a single building, the headquarters includes the Secretariat-General of the League, its Presidium and its Court of Justice, as well as a university, a science campus, a mosque, a synagog and a church. It relies entirely on solar energy and other renewable energy sources, with a sustainable, zero-carbon, zero-waste ecology; travel around the complex is accomplished via personal rapid transit 'pods'.
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Re: Random Ideas (Input Requested!)

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Image

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Re: Random Ideas (Input Requested!)

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:) What's that from?
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Re: Random Ideas (Input Requested!)

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Hellboy. Apparently its BPRD Russia.
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Re: Random Ideas (Input Requested!)

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Image

Image

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All from this here website. This guy is freaking amazing.
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Re: Random Ideas (Input Requested!)

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The Ministry of Space has been responsible for the management of all British activities beyond Earth's stratosphere ever since its creation by the Giles Erskine government of the mid-1960s. This includes both civilian and military, overt and covert programs. This has been the cause of much grumbling in the offices of the RAF and SIS alike, but the reality of the situation is that Britain simply cannot afford to run three separate space efforts at the same time, so the overall consensus in Whitehall is that Erskine made the right call.

The nominal headquarters of the Ministry is Marlborough House, a large Jacobean townhouse alongside Northumberland Avenue; however most of its hands-on activities are dispersed around the country to facilities like the London Heathrow Suborbital Terminal, the Pendragon Rocketfields and Maclaine Aerodrome in Scotland.
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Re: Random Ideas (Input Requested!)

Post by Arty »

Hell yeah.

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Re: Random Ideas (Input Requested!)

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Image
Too far into the future?
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Re: Random Ideas (Input Requested!)

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Kinda :), also raises the question of why do NASA of all people have tanks on Mars?
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Re: Random Ideas (Input Requested!)

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maybe the reds got there first? and beings reds they were camouflaged! we cannot allow an exoplanet miltia gap!

Now i'm wondering if they tried to change the nickname of the red planet. it was obviously communist propaganda
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Re: Random Ideas (Input Requested!)

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Re: Random Ideas (Input Requested!)

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With regards to Che's revolutionary dudes, how does Red Chapel sound to y'all guys?
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Re: Random Ideas (Input Requested!)

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Siege wrote:With regards to Che's revolutionary dudes, how does Red Chapel sound to y'all guys?
Hmm, unless you've changed your mind over the "sounds like an innocuous international aid organization" thing, it sounds more like what the West would call the organization than what it would call itself.
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Re: Random Ideas (Input Requested!)

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Philanthropy



:twisted:
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Re: Random Ideas (Input Requested!)

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Invictus wrote:Hmm, unless you've changed your mind over the "sounds like an innocuous international aid organization" thing, it sounds more like what the West would call the organization than what it would call itself.
Sigh, I suppose you're right. Back to the drawingboard...
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Re: Random Ideas (Input Requested!)

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The name I just came up with is the "Communality Movement" or the "Global Communality" or even the "New Communality Movement". Not very NGO, but it does sound like something a bunch of lefty social science academics would theorize into existence as a replacement for the thoroughly bankrupt and stultified ideology that is State Communism.

On the other hand, the USSR's current ruling ideology is classified by academics as "Second-wave Communism" or something.
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Re: Random Ideas (Input Requested!)

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Transcommunism.

No but second-wave is probably right. Communism through application of high tech.

I like the "New Communality Movement" a lot. The organization can be derogatively called the Red Chapel by right-wing Western commentators because they are perceived to be quite preachy. The idea has morphed slightly in my head; I now like to think that when Che founded them they were a bunch of ill-armed 'true believers' from all over the place that flocked to Cuba and were used as export revolutionary brigades (a) to get the armed mob off the island and (b) effect forceful revolutionary change abroad.

But that was all back in the sixties when Soviet arms were still cheap and plentiful; in '67 Che narrowly escapes execution in Bolivia, which combined with his failure in the Congo probably changes his perspective on armed insurrection. Then in 1976 Zhadanova takes power, the USSR goes isolationist and it becomes much more difficult to get guns out of Moscow Centre. Subsequently the organization morphs from what's essentially an armed mob of fanatics into something resembling an aid organization that provides food, shelter, power, education and (armed) security in impoverished regions throughout South America.

This way Che's organization essentially hard counters historical CIA dickery in the region, making it much more difficult for death squads, multinationals and right-wing juntas to do their bloody business as per IRL. It also puts a much more humane face on export communism, and as a result might actually eventually be something that Zhadanova gets behind and funds in some way, thus allowing the organization to expand and survive to the modern day. They could have a headquarters in Havana full of glorious expositions about how their revolutionary fervor saved thousands from starvation and the depradations of capitalism... And they'd actually be right.

It could serve to make Havana into something of a counterbalance to Moscow: they don't have the space planes or the supercomputers or any of that insane whizbang tech, but they've got hearts and minds and soft power and the soul of the revolution and they keep the True Meaning of Communism alive even when the USSR goes all dark and gritty during and after the Crisis.
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Re: Random Ideas (Input Requested!)

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Siege wrote:It could serve to make Havana into something of a counterbalance to Moscow: they don't have the space planes or the supercomputers or any of that insane whizbang tech, but they've got hearts and minds and soft power and the soul of the revolution and they keep the True Meaning of Communism alive even when the USSR goes all dark and gritty during and after the Crisis.
Can you elaborate on this a bit?
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Re: Random Ideas (Input Requested!)

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Kiralova and her loyalists had to make quite a number of unsavory choices in order to come out on top; sacrifices were made in terms of people and ideals, and perspectives change.

The Ultramilitants wasn't just a handful of people. It's obvious that Iosef Sechalin wasn't acting on his own but beyond Sechalin's small inner circle the Ultramilitants weren't a well-defined group. It's a known fact that entire nations within the Soviet bloc were providing them with aid, either through active cooperation or passively by sitting on the fence whilst the situation resolved itself -- but the situation was short and chaotic enough that by Crisis end it's uncertain who cooperated out of fear and who did so out of genuine sympathy; in fact there are countless people inside the Warsaw Pact apparatus whose loyalties in the matter are entirely unclear.

The resolution of the Crisis may have been a victory for the loyalists, but it also exposed deep rifts within the Warsaw Pact. The Ultramilitant betrayal and the thousands of deaths their coup caused has a very real impact on the mindset of the survivors. Post-Crisis Kiralova is noticeably more cynical and mistrustful, not in the least because she knows Sechalin was getting support from Western sources. This newfound distrust of not just the West but also a lot of her own people is reflected in things like the rebirth of the Commissariat, significantly expanded powers of prosecution (some would say persecution) by the internal intelligence services, and the implementation of interrogation policies of suspected high-ranking Ultramilitants that border on or outright cross over into torture territory.

There are soldiers on the streets of Moscow. SICKLE monitors every phonecall. And for the first time in decades the cellars of Lubyanka are full again.
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Re: Random Ideas (Input Requested!)

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I see. All for holding the state together, at the detriment of the very proletariat that the state was supposed to fight for. Theorists of the NCM surely argue that such is the inevitable consequence of state communism.

On another note, the longevity of the New Communality Movement means that its brand of politics comes with a certain cachet - witness evangelically interventionalist politicians of every stripe all over the world getting branded as "Neocoms"!
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Re: Random Ideas (Input Requested!)

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Invictus wrote:I see. All for holding the state together, at the detriment of the very proletariat that the state was supposed to fight for. Theorists of the NCM surely argue that such is the inevitable consequence of state communism.
I imagine so. I also imagine the worst of it fades away after a decade or so of paranoia, possibly after Comrade Hammer tells Kiralova to her face that he's getting tired of playing the role of witchhunter-in-chief, possibly because deep down inside she knows that clamping down on all possible opposition and being super hostile toward the West is in fact exactly what Sechalin would have done if he'd won.

So the Warsaw Pact emerges from technocyber noirpunk just in time for the Race to Mars and crazy hijinks involving mad doctors, stealth pirates, ancient European cults and alien doohickeys.
On another note, the longevity of the New Communality Movement means that its brand of politics comes with a certain cachet - witness evangelically interventionalist politicians of every stripe all over the world getting branded as "Neocoms"!
Hahaha, that's awesome :D. We'd have to think about how tightly the NCM is interwoven with Cuban politics (in fact it might be a good idea to establish if Cuba is still a Castro-esque state to begin with -- I imagine it's a bit more benign than IRL). I imagine there's some unofficial links and Cuban intelligence occasionally operates under the guide of the Communality whenever it's abroad, but it's not an organ of the Cuban state and probably has traditionally resisted all attempts to make it into such.
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Re: Random Ideas (Input Requested!)

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I wonder if from say the year 2010 onward there might be enough civilians on the moon to warrant things like actual police presence and such.

Because then we could have the continuing adventures of Roman Messier, SPACE FBI.
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