Re: Random notes and whatnot
Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:36 am
Two quick SDN threads which may be worth reading:
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=125130 On ion engines. Features a Sikon post.
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=125212 My thread about antimatter reactor design. Also features a Sikon post.
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There's been an alien discussion on the sfconsim-l mailing list over the last week or so, and it has been fairly interesting. Even the "kill them before they kill us" which is brought up in almost every damn alien debate for some stupid reason (yes, I lambaste it despite actually using it in my own storyline. At least I shot it the hell down in universe, but not really to the extent it deserves. I'll probably fix that in the rewrite.) had some interesting counterpoints:
And of course, the cost of launching an interstellar war is absurdly high, and the benefits are non-existant. There is no really good justification for actually attacking someone in another star system in the first place.
Anyway, moving on to the more interesting stuff, some of the posters there suggested doing exactly what I've been doing: try to think about an alien race's evolutionary history. Let me copy a few key quotes:
Beth Fulton responding to Rick Robinson:
Speaking of Rick Robinson:
Isaac Kuo responds with saying that he thinks most aliens would actually be artificial - we'd meet their robot representatives instead, and gives an example of a hypothetical alien race living in Neptune, which would need high pressure to survive, so it is easier for them to send out robots and AIs than go themselves.
More from Mr Kuo, still responding to Rick Robinson:
Also mental capacity is something you might remember me discussing before: A'millian mental capacity is also related to their lifespan, but not quite in the Mr Kuo is suggesting would happen.
Continuing from the same post:
The final paragraph is just an interesting idea.
From another post by Mr Kuo responding to Winchell Chung:
I really want to do additional alien races at some point. I think it'd be a blast. Insect like creatures would certainly be among them. As would avians (though the A'millians are already pretty much based on birds in a lot of ways, it'd be fun the go all the way.)
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=125130 On ion engines. Features a Sikon post.
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=125212 My thread about antimatter reactor design. Also features a Sikon post.
=======
There's been an alien discussion on the sfconsim-l mailing list over the last week or so, and it has been fairly interesting. Even the "kill them before they kill us" which is brought up in almost every damn alien debate for some stupid reason (yes, I lambaste it despite actually using it in my own storyline. At least I shot it the hell down in universe, but not really to the extent it deserves. I'll probably fix that in the rewrite.) had some interesting counterpoints:
I love ripping those stupid arguments apart. Even the game theory argument that is often brought up to say shoot first is best doesn't actually work - the way to actually maximize your points in that game is to cooperate by default! If you assume the aliens know this too, then you have nothing to worry about.Isaac Kuo wrote:The basic problem with the "laws" is that they can be equally applied
on a national level--or even an individual level. Consider the laws
as applied to your next door neighbor. Why don't you murder your
neighbor before he gets you first? The gaps in the argument become
blatant and obvious.
Isaac Kuo
And of course, the cost of launching an interstellar war is absurdly high, and the benefits are non-existant. There is no really good justification for actually attacking someone in another star system in the first place.
Anyway, moving on to the more interesting stuff, some of the posters there suggested doing exactly what I've been doing: try to think about an alien race's evolutionary history. Let me copy a few key quotes:
Beth Fulton responding to Rick Robinson:
I completely agree, which is why I spend just as much time talking about A'millian history and evolutionary development as I do modern technology and such.> But an interesting question lurks here. How different 'should'
> aliens be, and in what ways? Presumably their sex lives
> (or however they reproduce), eating habits, and such will
> be as different from us as their biological characteristics
> and background are.
Yes and I think this is in part where novel writers would benefit from
sketching out an ecology even if they never actually use it in the
novel. They need to explore the full potential of methods seen on Earth
(some of which are so bizarre the vast majority of the readership would
never guess they're not completely fictional), make alien landscapes,
evolution, history etc to get to where the species is now, before
running with it. They needn't put all that detail into any story, but it
needs to be there to build fully fledged 4D (physical and developmental)
aliens.
Speaking of Rick Robinson:
This is something I also love attacking: aliens wanting to have sex with humans is pretty damn unlikely. Hell, I don't want to have sex with you - why would someone from another planet?I haven't read any Cherryh (tried Downbelow Station once; didn't
click), but if her aliens are so human-like that they have sex with
us, for all practical purposes they are humans of a different culture.
Isaac Kuo responds with saying that he thinks most aliens would actually be artificial - we'd meet their robot representatives instead, and gives an example of a hypothetical alien race living in Neptune, which would need high pressure to survive, so it is easier for them to send out robots and AIs than go themselves.
More from Mr Kuo, still responding to Rick Robinson:
Lower metabolism might be like the plant like aliens I intend to do - they respond to things, but on a time scale completely unlike our own.Life in a world with much lower power input may plausibly run at a
much lower metabolism. Conversely, a much higher power input may
allow for a much higher metabolism. This may have implications on
lifespan and practical learning capacity, as well as communications
rates.
Think about how much of human mental capabilities hinge on lifespan
and learning rate. It doesn't make sense to have oodles of mental
capacity that you won't have time to fill up.
Also mental capacity is something you might remember me discussing before: A'millian mental capacity is also related to their lifespan, but not quite in the Mr Kuo is suggesting would happen.
Continuing from the same post:
The paragraph about mind control is most fascinating. He makes a very good point that I've considered before myself: you really can't do anything without someone trying to influence your mind. Advertising is done the way it is because they know how to nudge ideas in someone's mind to change his opinion without him realizing it. Political speeches are about rousing our emotions. What is moving to a human wouldn't be moving to an alien at all - something I try to show in my story (though my poor writing skills don't help much there; hopefully, the rewrite will make it better).>But what about their politics and philosophy?
I think these will be extremely different. Libertarians and
communists like to think of politics/economics as scientific
absolutes. However, the reality is that they are intimitely
dependent on the specifics of human psychology, technology, and the
resulting organizational practical realities.
Consider how much of our human activity essentially amounts to
various forms of mind control. There's advertising, there's
propoganda, there's education, there's religion...all things which
are specific to the way human psychology works. Why would mind
control of aliens be similar to mind control of humans? It wouldn't,
except perhaps for the broadest strokes.
I expect that the overall "altruism level" of aliens may be very
different from humans, and the ways this "altruism" may be
manipulated and/or expressed will be very different. This will have
profound effects on wealth redistribution policy and even if such a
policy is necessary.
[...]
However, aliens in an environment promoting short lifespans
may evolve "brain mitosis"--the ability to copy memories into the
offspring. Conversely, aliens in an environment promoting long
lifespans may evolve much greater mental capacity.
The final paragraph is just an interesting idea.
From another post by Mr Kuo responding to Winchell Chung:
An insect species would be a lot of fun to play with. Loads of biologicial specialization including throwaway workers. The kind of culture that if it was humans, would be horribly repressive and arguably evil, but perfectly normal and desirable to the insects.>[3] The tendency for individuals to engage in behavior
>that maybe advantageous to the individual but
>detrimental to society or the species. Being
>self-centered and selfish, in other words.
This is more obviously an inherent problem--far moreso than either of
the above. However, it's not clear that this problem exists for all
species. The worker members of the great insect colonies seem to
just robotically do the bidding of the colony.
I really want to do additional alien races at some point. I think it'd be a blast. Insect like creatures would certainly be among them. As would avians (though the A'millians are already pretty much based on birds in a lot of ways, it'd be fun the go all the way.)